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-   -   Can a regional run without long-term pilots (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/120108-can-regional-run-without-long-term-pilots.html)

Varsity 02-19-2019 02:16 PM

At Envoy, we have over 200 lifers. That's almost 10% of the airline. More than enough to make it run.

The real brain drain is in the training department. Our "professional" sim instructors suck. Most have never flown a jet before.

jcountry 02-19-2019 02:49 PM

I worry about “lifers” more than FNGs.

I flew with a couple who were terrifying

Excargodog 02-19-2019 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by bradthepilot (Post 2766985)
The pilots who push, nonetheless, for +/- one degree are the ones I want to fly with.

I’d prefer the ones that keep up their instrument scan rather than letting their attention be distracted by micromanaging something that on a five nautical mile wide airway will move them one mile to the right or left of centerline over the next 100 miles.

Anybody who is obsessing on a 1 degree heading issue anywhere outside the FAF isn’t paying attention to more important things.

YMMV.

ZeroTT 02-19-2019 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by bradthepilot (Post 2766985)
One of the most surprising things to me, transitioning from engineering to the airlines, is that pilots only need to be "adequate". There is no reward or recognition for holding a heading +/- one degree instead of the +/- ten degrees, for example.


YMMV, of course.

I'm with you on at least having a goal fo excellence rather than adequacy ... but pilots are kinda like 2*4's. They need to be like every other 2*4. They don't have to be twice as strong and half the weight.

dera 02-19-2019 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by Varsity (Post 2767016)
At Envoy, we have over 200 lifers. That's almost 10% of the airline. More than enough to make it run.

The real brain drain is in the training department. Our "professional" sim instructors suck. Most have never flown a jet before.

Couldn't agree more. Thankfully most sim instructors are still actual pilots.

bradthepilot 02-19-2019 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2767107)
I’d prefer the ones that keep up their instrument scan rather than letting their attention be distracted by micromanaging something that on a five nautical mile wide airway will move them one mile to the right or left of centerline over the next 100 miles.

Anybody who is obsessing on a 1 degree heading issue anywhere outside the FAF isn’t paying attention to more important things.

YMMV.

I think you miss my point. While someone who operates just inside the tolerances for whatever is certainly adequate and meets the standard, they aren't trying to improve their skills. And that's the point - someone who isn't trying to improve their professional skillset isn't worth hiring if there is someone who *is* constantly trying to improve available. It's not hard to tell the two apart in a 30 minute conversation, LCA or not.

Varsity 02-19-2019 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 2767136)
Couldn't agree more. Thankfully most sim instructors are still actual pilots.

Our line pilots in the training dept are super heroes. The PSI's are like black holes of misinformation. It's an atrocity.

Excargodog 02-19-2019 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by bradthepilot (Post 2767153)
I think you miss my point. While someone who operates just inside the tolerances for whatever is certainly adequate and meets the standard, they aren't trying to improve their skills. And that's the point - someone who isn't trying to improve their professional skillset isn't worth hiring if there is someone who *is* constantly trying to improve available. It's not hard to tell the two apart in a 30 minute conversation, LCA or not.

I think you chose a poor example to make your point. Chasing parallax error or Brownian motion does not make you more precise or motivated, it just increases your task loading without benefit, which won’t hurt you usually if everything else is going OK.

Acquiring the skill and knowledge of how to most safely and efficiently manage an aircraft is indeed a laudable goal, but instantly correcting every one degree deviation does not contribute to that - not outside the FAF anyway. There are other places the mental effort to accomplish that degree of attention could and should be better spent.

bradthepilot 02-19-2019 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2767180)
I think you chose a poor example to make your point. Chasing parallax error or Brownian motion does not make you more precise or motivated, it just increases your task loading without benefit, which won’t hurt you usually if everything else is going OK.

Acquiring the skill and knowledge of how to most safely and efficiently manage an aircraft is indeed a laudable goal, but instantly correcting every one degree deviation does not contribute to that - not outside the FAF anyway. There are other places the mental effort to accomplish that degree of attention could and should be better spent.

Sigh. Sorry. Didn't realize I was dealing with Capt. Literal. :rolleyes:

dera 02-19-2019 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by Varsity (Post 2767155)
Our line pilots in the training dept are super heroes. The PSI's are like black holes of misinformation. It's an atrocity.

My training feedback that I sent was pretty darn long. I'm glad I had quite a lot of experience in real life IFR flying, and I was paired with a CA upgrade. So we knew to call out the BS our PSI tried to feed us doing IPTs and one sim session.
"If you can't load the LDA from the FMS just load the ILS, it's the same thing".
Wish I was making that sh*t up.

The real line pilot instructors, just like you say, are amazing.


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