Regional questions
 

Can someone help me understand the upgrade? I have heard that some airlines now allow you to go from F/O on a regional to F/O on a mainline w/o being a CAP at that same regional. Is this true?

Also, if you decide to go to an airline with a flow program such as PSA, do they make you sign on a contract saying you will stay on with them until you flow through? I guess I'm wondering why wouldn't someone just go for an airline with a flow program, and continue to apply with other legacy carriers at the same time to increase their chances of getting hired?

Sorry if these questions have already been asked...

I'm sure there are regional FOs that are hired straight into a legacy but I'd say those are rare cases. Probably happens more with the LCCs

That's what people at AAG wholly owneds do. There's nothing stopping you from being hired outside the flow. Other regionals pay more but with PSAs pay raise there is no reason not to go there if you don't care where you're based.

Yes, but not in a way that it is going to happen to you. Those FOs that go straight to a legacy usually have previous military flying experience with lots of milPIC time.



Plenty of people do not go to a Regional with flow once they do a little research. The Regionals with flow usually have the worst pay and work rules. No reason to be miserable for 7 - 10 years (the true time it will take to flow for a new hire today) when the hiring market is expected to improve over the next few years unless there is something that stops it like a huge downturn or another 9/11 (another reason to go to a Regional with good pay and QOL).

Well, now PSA has the flow, good pay, and great work rules (unlimited SAP!).
It's a great deal right now.

Good first year pay anyway, which didn't I hear came from a retention bonus or something? After that, it levels back off to below everyone else.

Oh, and don't forget the forced upgrades to outstation bases.

Their CA rates are competitive now.

Yeah, does anyone know of an FO who was hired by a legacy with no TPIC? I just don’t see that happening. Maybe by an LCC, but not a legacy or FDX, UPS or WN.

I know of a dozen at my airline.

I second this, there are several dozen at my airline.

Same here. I know dozens of FO’s, no prior military, no prior 121 or TPIC hired at legacy carriers without a flow. All their PIC time was from GA piston airplanes.
I think it’s part of what killed ASA as it became very top heavy (expensive).

Ya, what you’re seeing is dated now. PSA FOs get the sign on bonus plus increased pay rates at 50 bucks an hour first year. The retention bonus is gone and is now a hard pay. Before you didn’t get the Retention bonus until year one anniversary. So now you’re making money from the start. Pretty awesome deal! Plus pay over 75 hrs to 85 is at 125% and from 85-95 at 150%! For all pilots. I’m a year 4 captain and went from 72/hr to 89/hr and when we lose 200s the pay increases due to blended rates. So more like 90 an hour. It’s crazy!! Plus Schedule Adjustment Period and Flow.. no concessions were made.

While I do agree there are exceptions, there is almost always some type of rare qualifier that got them there. The ones that I know that went from FO straight to a Legacy without any 121 PIC time, no mil, and less then 3000 hours did things like intern at the Legacy's corporate HQs during college, through nepotism from somebody high up, served the executive board of a nation wide charitable organization, etc.



But hey, if you want to spread false hope to everybody who doesn't have a taste of the industry yet, more power to you and Meow.

3/4s of the ones I know, this statement didn’t apply. Aside from meeting the mins, volunteering, and being an overall non-dick. They had nothing special in their backgrounds. Sure a few had unicorn qualifiers like an FAA internship back in the day, the occasional triple minority, and some with their masters. But largely, nothing special - some didn’t have the internal recommendations either.

How many hours did they have. Did they go right at 2500?

I stand corrected, I guess I am wrong. FOs are getting snatched up by Legacies right at 1000 Part 121 SIC time. No special qualifiers needed. Don't worry guys, your stay at the Regionals will be short. Only a year or so before you are snatched up by Delta.

My buddies and I have concluded they do that by lottery, nobody is sure why (other than the obvious affirmative action picks). Possibly to smooth out their age demographics to prevent *another* retirement bubble in 20 years, possibly to leverage optimism among entry-level/ junior regional pilots... if one of them gets hired, they all think they'll be next.

For planning purposes, the only *predictable* way to get called is still to have a relatively clean record, a degree, multiple types, 5K+ hours w/ 2K+ TPIC, and usually something else on the resume that makes you interesting... masters, volunteer, check airman, etc, etc

2500-2800, I know one had just finished captain upgrade with 2700TT. However, he got the call before he updated his app to include that information.

Can I quote you on that? :)

Yeah, but not too much TT. After about 8K they don’t seem to like you.
I know pilots at the legacies who also scratch their heads about it. It seems that once you hit your 40’s as a non military FW pilot your chances drop dramatically. While there are exceptions to the age rule, they are exceptions.
The only common thread I saw in the FOs getting picked up was that they were less than 35 years old but over six years as an FO. Unless they were a targeted demographic. I saw some of those FOs picked up after 3-4 years.

The only FOs i know of that have gone right seat to right seat have: been a 121 FO for 4.5 years and had 5000+ TT, were of a specific ethnicity, or had significant TPIC already. Even pilots of the “minority gender” have been CAs for the most part believe it or not.

Hey, I am just capitulating to the two Ms. They said it, not me.

I know a number of minority FOs who went to legacy carriers with zero TPIC, less than 4 years and less than 5000TT. Otherwise they needed to have more than 5 years, most were about 8 years.
But this was XJT. It seemed to be the exception there.

My first CFI went to Delta after 2 years as XJT FO.

Wouldn’t it be interesting to see the total time of average female, or minority when hired at a legacy airline vs a white male hired at the same legacy?

She was a great CFI...

You're playing with fire there....

[Begin sarcasm font]surely you aren't implying they would preferential hiring ..... [end sarcasm font]

Regional Options
 

Hello all,

I am approaching ATP minimums and starting to consider applying to the regionals. I live in the Miami area and have been reading several of the forums to learn and educate myself on choosing the best regional for my situation.

Obviously, if you only get one offer - easy answer. But for arguments sake lets assume you get multiple offers.

I agreed that living on base is first priority. My understanding is Envoy and Republic are the only regionals with bases in Miami. I have seen Republic advertise for MIA but from reading the boards it sounds like MIA is very senior and you wouldn't get that base for quite some time and am also concerned with the number of hours you fly on reserve and length of time on reserve with both Envoy and Republic.
Envoy has the flow but that would not be my primary reason for choosing them - but good backup plan.

Do you go to Envoy or Republic to wait for Miami base for better QOL or choose another regional with shorter reserve times and faster upgrades, get your time in and move on?

If not stuck on MIA base, then I'm thinking of at least trying on stay on east coast or no further west than Chicago for hopefully 1 leg commute.

Looking for opinions as I really don't know how to look up reserve times for the different airlines/different bases/hours flown per month on reserve, etc. other than what I have read on APC. Is that info available online as I have not seen it?

What's the opinion on interviewing with multiple companies, accepting class dates and then cancelling once you decided on which regional is best for you? Has anyone had it bite you in the but down the road? For whatever reason, if you wanted to move or apply to a regional that you had previously accepted a class date and later cancelled, would they consider you again?

This is only my second post on APC, be gentle.
Thanks in advance for you help.

Miami for Envoy went super junior on the last bid, they actually had to involuntary TDY a few FOs for MIA 145.

Whatever you choose, regional rule nr 1: No regional is worth commuting for.
Driving to work beats any work rule or payscale a regional can throw at you.

They didn't involuntary TDY any FO's. Just captains.

Yes they did. 2 DFE->MFE.
HI6 sent 12th April.

You need to speak in English when you aren't in an Envoy thread.

Sorry, here’s the translation.
Au contraire to what Varsity claimed, 2 DFW 145 FOs got involuntarily TDYd to MIA 145 FO. Internal company email sent on the 12th.

For me, the only regional where I could of driven to would be Silver.

Written like a millennial with no ties or responsibilities.
For the rest of the population, it isn’t worth uprooting your family, making your spouse quit a job and moving them across the country for a regional job. Look at websites such as passrider.com for possible commutes. Look at bases serviced by SWA. Their aircraft usually have 2 jumpseat a along with many Airbuses. Pick something close, but think about hubs. I took a longer commute once to avoid an ATL commute and all the DAL employees. Some airports just suck, others aren’t so bad.

Wait... what??? You couldn’t just pull up stakes, sell the farm and move for a regional job???

Wtf? You didn't understand what I meant. Let me rephrase it:

If you live in a regional base, work at that regional. Never chase the best contract or payrate at a regional level - no regional is worth commuting for. Other regional might pay $20k more, but driving to work is more valuable than that.

FYI: I'm not a millennial, and I have ties and responsibilities. That's why I choose to drive to work, and would not commute for any regional.

Then phrase it differently. You made it sound like one should uproot a family, sell the home and move for a regional job.

Internets is hard sometimes. I didn't mean it that way originally.

I'd be hard pressed to do that for anyone, including the big five. One of the most unique benefits we have is to live where we want.(most of us)