Airline Pilot Central Forums - Airlines requiring part 117 extensions

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Why would you write anonymously to your congressman?

I think a few wires are being crossed on the word “forced”. Pilots can always call out fatigued and then they won’t let your operate the aircraft even if you wanted to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captive apple (Post 2858110)

Correct, but if your pay is being threatened or other action is taken against you as a result of calling fatigued, you now have motivation (“forced”) to work in a “fatigued state.” I don’t fly for OO so I’m not sure of the validity of the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captive apple (Post 2858110)

Calling in fatigued has a high likelihood of pay being denied when you would otherwise be pay protected at most companies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captive apple (Post 2858107)

The FDP CMD does not show your times with an automatic extension before being extended. Our website also tracks 117 for us. You should keep doing your own calculations but to say you are on your own is really false. You have an amazing amount of resources at you finger tips including the people who are tracking your situation from a computer when your times go critical. You can also call or msg them anytime in advance and they will look at your situation with you.
117 is about fatigue and rest rules, not work rules. If you figure that out and it will be obvious you need to call in unless we negotiate something into our PPM.

You're correct. It doesn't add the extension in the FDP command before it's required. If your pairing is delayed enough to the point where it is required, it will be added into the ACARS
command without it being communicated. I understand that I have resources available, but the only thing they can do is tell me to call out fatigued.

The conversation essentially goes something like this. "You can still get to your destination with 45 minutes left on your extension....are you saying you're unwilling to work the flight?...you'll have to call out fatigued, I'll transfer you to crew support so they can do that for you..."

I don't want to call fatigue. I just don't want to extend

Why should we need to write something in our PPM. It's clearly written in the FAR's

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFBprobs (Post 2858119)

I don't want to call fatigue. I just don't want to extend

I'm not sure why there is such a huge concern with calling in fatigued. One was rested and prepared to fly the day as it was originally scheduled, but unforeseen circumstances forced delays that fatigued them to the point they are not safe to fly. I don't know what the companies failure to pay that situation record is, but I'd guess it's fairly low.
Don't fear the fatigue report, just fill it out and if delays from IROPs/weather/broken airplane caused you to be tired, don't fly.

Unless I missed something, 117 specifics that the PIC has a say in the extension. The certificate holder cannot unilaterally extend the crew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herewego (Post 2858173)

Going unpaid for a fatigue call at certain carriers by not accepting an extension is actually a pretty high likelihood

Quote:

Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 2858207)

Going unpaid for a fatigue call at certain carriers by not accepting an extension is actually a pretty high likelihood

Which carriers? Who do you work for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabapch (Post 2858098)

The new chief of the FAA is a former Delta executive... that says it all right there. Congress passed 117 in order to PREVENT fatigue from occurring, NOT forcing pilots to work until they eventually have to call fatigue. I would like to say that’s where a union can help ya, but hearing stories from my peers, in most cases unions are just toothless tigers when it comes to this. If OO is forcing you to extend they MUST be using “unforeseen circumstances” as a pretext, because by law they cannot make an extension mandatory in every scenario. If you feel like you are being “forced” to extend by threat of disciplinary and/or financial action as a result of calling fatigue, I highly urge you to start making this company practice as public as possible and writing to your congressman, because this is a clear threat to public safety.

Yes "unforeseen circumstances" has been defined by the FAA as not in your original awarded schedule, I.E. your bid. So any schedule change becomes "unforeseen", very convenient. Take it up withe FAA, they made the rules and then let the carriers trample them.

Maybe I’m incorrect, but I thought Extension of the FDP under FAR 117 required the consent of the pilot.....unlimited extensions of 30 minutes or less, and no more extensions until the pilot receives a 30hr break if an extension is more than 30 minutes. I’ll have to reread the regulation...perhaps I’m mistaken