I work for SkyWest. Part 117 extensions are mandatory here. The only way to know if you're going into an extension is a manual calculation of table B. There is no discussion with dispatch or management when extending. The FDP ACARS tool tells you how much time you have left with the extension included automatically.

If you don't want to take the extension you have to call out fatigued, have to fill out a lengthy report, and may or may not get paid.

Is this the way it is everywhere?

Apparently the SLC FSDO backs the company up on this practice.

 

It's not just us. From the Delta section:
FDP extension email from mgmt

Haven't had to extend yet, but have pre warned them that by the time a replacement airplane came in and we could make it back from the outstation we would not be in any condition to continue to our scheduled overnight. Got to go home for the night while my commuting FO did get a hotel paid for in domicile, and we all continued the trip the next day .
It's an easy no brainer for me. Fatigued it is, with an easy justification that I was prepared and rested for the scheduled day, but was unable to continue past 14 hours. or whatever the convoluted 117 duty time was.

 

I guess it's good to know we're not the only ones. This seems to be in direct contradiction of what the law intended. An agreement between management and the PIC. Why not just add 2 hours to everything in table B? Cuz congress wouldn't have voted on it if they saw 16 hrs

 

I'll reference the only 2 places that I'm familiar with the policies. Envoy, you are required to accept the extension. The only alternative is to call fatigue. At AA, it's completely up to you to accept or deny the extension, no questions asked. No requirement to call fatigue in the case of not accepting an extension.

 

It's a done deal, the FAA completely caved to industry pressure. To add insult to injury they claim disciplinary action or pay issues are between the company and the employee.
Fatigued is the only option unless you have other union/company agreements in place.

 

The saddest part is the NTSB cites fatigue as a causal factor in a good amount of accidents. 16 hours on duty is far too many. 13 is really pushing it. Yes, just being at the airport is tiring. Anyone whose ever traveled knows this. My personal limit is typically around 13-14 hours and I will never go beyond my limit. Fire me if you want to, this is not worth my life and especially not others.

 

Is anyone really shocked that the FAA went limp d!ck here and that most companies are basically back to the old tricks of 16 hours on duty is just fine, especially for reserves? I mean we have the best selling Boeing airplane ever that has spent about 6 months now collecting dust in several sites at this point with no end in sight because the FAA let the tail wag the dog there too. Why do we even bother to have an FAA at this point? Trump wants to cut wasteful government, the FAA may not be the first on the list, but it's up there these days.

 

The new chief of the FAA is a former Delta executive... that says it all right there. Congress passed 117 in order to PREVENT fatigue from occurring, NOT forcing pilots to work until they eventually have to call fatigue. I would like to say that’s where a union can help ya, but hearing stories from my peers, in most cases unions are just toothless tigers when it comes to this. If OO is forcing you to extend they MUST be using “unforeseen circumstances” as a pretext, because by law they cannot make an extension mandatory in every scenario. If you feel like you are being “forced” to extend by threat of disciplinary and/or financial action as a result of calling fatigue, I highly urge you to start making this company practice as public as possible and writing to your congressman, because this is a clear threat to public safety.

 

Yea my congressman will be getting a lengthy anonymous letter soon. Thanks

 

The FDP CMD does not show your times with an automatic extension before being extended. Our website also tracks 117 for us. You should keep doing your own calculations but to say you are on your own is really false. You have an amazing amount of resources at you finger tips including the people who are tracking your situation from a computer when your times go critical. You can also call or msg them anytime in advance and they will look at your situation with you.
117 is about fatigue and rest rules, not work rules. If you figure that out and it will be obvious you need to call in unless we negotiate something into our PPM.