Quality Of Life for the Newbies
 

As some would say, I am on of those low time pilots who don’t deserve to be in the cockpit of anything with more than two blades pulling it (and some would dispute even that) 750TT/60. I understand that this is a common thought among the more experienced guys, and maybe it should be; that's not my question.

My question is how bad is this pouring over into the CRM and the social aspect of things on the job? I was talking to one of the examiners here recently and he told me that one of the CFI's from another University is about to quit his newly acquired airline job because everyone hates him because he was so low time at hire. It could be distorted and he just sucks as a person....I have no idea. He complains of things like; The crew goes out to eat...the FO isn't invited. I am just wondering, has anyone seen the "screw the newbie" attitude reflected in the cockpit and on overnights? I'm sure people think it, but are they acting on it? If I do get the job that I am actively seeking am I going to be unanimously hated by everyone because I have three digits worth of flight time at hire instead of four or five?

Naw, it's usually more like "screw the Flight Attendant" hehe...;-P

But seriously, I was a 500TT new-hire and have only run into one or two CA's that were anything less than super-awesome to fly with...I've had a blast on nearly every trip I can remember!

Which airline are you with if you don't mind me asking?

If nothing else it proves beyond reasonable doubt pilots ARE idiots. The low flight times the airlines are hiring at right now are what they ALWAYS should have been hiring at with respect to what they PAY. They don't deserve anything more than a new pilot- and they never have.

I would do what you have to do man, in 1 year nobody will give a crap.

I was a low-timer at TSA and didn't experience any alienation from crews because of it. Just fly the plane and don't bring up your experience unless somebody asks.

why are you making excuses for your low time? Every pilot at one time or another was at 700 and 50. Just because 95% of the people on here are full of S _ _ T doesn't mean the people you fly with will be. 95% of the people you fly with are awesome!!!

so what are everyone's personal definitions of a low time pilot?

Also, how long ago and what were your times when you got hired

you better hope ellen is off for the night. your times are fine good luck to you

"Just because 95% of the people on here are full of S _ _ T doesn't mean the people you fly with will be."

This site is a cross section of the industry...

If you think 95% of the folks here are full of S_ _T, then I'd suggest you find someplace else to spend your free time.

Good suggestion. The computer screen gives us great annonomity. I wonder what it would be like sitting down over a gourmet meal and wine with some of the more controversial members of this group. We would probably discover that all are quite civilized and capable of rational discussion.

Throwing rocks in a glass house is easy on the computer.

EDIT: I'm sorry. Shoud have included Foodies - a person who has a special interest in food, even foods that a self-identified gourmet would turn his or her nose up at.

There is nothing more annoying than a 700hr wonder know it all. As long as you
dont behave like one, you be awright.

Do you happen to know what airline this guy is flying for?

I dont think he is alienated because of his hours. It is more than likely one or many of his personal characteristics and he would have been disliked regardless of hours

I have seen low timers (like myself) get in trouble when they start complaining about the pay, and that fact that they have to sit reserve for three months. When most of the captains that we fly with had 700 hours they were still flying cargo or instructing, and glad to be building time. When we low timers complain about the fact that we're flying a 50 pax jet with for 20k a year it grates on them. They feel like we've overstepped the rite of passage of icing up over the great lakes and almost killing ourselves in the process. Truthfully the wages that we are paid are tough to live on, but I could still be a CFI racking up hours 90% slower than I am now.

I think the best thing to do for any new hire, low time or not, is to keep your mouth shut and your mind open.

Well said.

blcampbell-

Do not let any of the rumors and hear say get to you. We all have to start somewhere and at some time. There are some where I work that are complaining about the possibility of flying with some low time pilots, but that is part of the job. They are lazy and want to work as little as possible. I have flown with 500 hr guys as a new captain and it was some work as I was a bit more alert, but nothing bad has happened that I couldn't control.

As someone mentioned above, show up, do your best, and if time comes up, be honest. Good luck at your new job/career.

Social Banishment
 

Low time goes away. The mark of being a scab lasts longer but eventually subsides as the claimed eventually advance into management, union leadership or to whatever their other career goals are. :)


Its a good idea to stay away from your co-workers anyway. The FA only wants to trash your reputation and steal your wallet. The captains aim is to make you an accomplice so he can drink and party without fear of you reporting him.


SkyHigh

Generalize much? :)

Don't worry about it. Not knowing your friend it's hard to say but I would guess that it is more to do with some underlying social issues that he has as opposed to his times that cause him to be shunned by his fellow crew members. You never know, it could even be something as simple as smelling bad or constantly farting in the cockpit.;) I once flew with a CA who had gas issues and I wasn't exactly thinking "I can't wait to get on the ground so I can go out and have a drink with this guy..." Some of my flight school buddies went the "low time" route and never had a problem with the vast majority of CAs they flew with. Sure, you're always going to have the occasional nasty CA but that can and will happen regardless of your times. I've personally only flown with one captain who has complained to me about the "low timers".

If you're lucky enough to be hired with "low time" be modest, well prepared, safe and always be open to learn and you will be fine.

wolf

Every FO is low time their first day on the job...it's the way they act when they hit the line that determines if they get left in the hotel room at night.

While I can say that I am ALWAYS learning new things as a pilot, I can say that the number of things you will learn going around the pattern as a CFI for 2000 hours may not necessarily make you a proportionately better pilot than you were at 700. It'll make you better, but perhaps not so much that it's worth the time it takes.

There is a certain breed of young, low-time pilot being hired as a result of the current hiring climate that offends some folks. Speaking very, very broadly, the stereotype of which I speak have never had a non-flying job (or maybe ANY other job), and are difficult for those of us who are a little older, sadder (and yes, maybe a little wiser) to get along with. Part of it might be jealousy, but I think most of it is a straight-up difference in maturity (no matter who you are, you're not the same person you were 10 years ago, and most of us don't want to go back).

When a young guy on career month #4 sits down in the right seat of a jet and bitches about how life's hard, they are running the risk of annoying people who have lived and worked and sacrificed for a while to get where they are. If an FO does his job well, gauges the cockpit climate properly, and listens before talking, he or she will almost never be perceived as "low-time." If you are young and low time and have given something like the "cockpit climate" some thought, you're probably not the type to set off discontented grumblings.

If you run into a captain who's bugging out about low-time pilots (they are rare), keep your mouth shut. If you just can't do that, ask them sincerely if they had been given the opportunity to go to a 121 operator when they had 700 hours, would they have turned it down on principle so that they could acquire additional Cessna 172 experience? Be good at your job before you say anything, though.

The new guys, as long as they can pull their weight on the job, are golden!

Supply and demand got you hired with low time, the fact that you can pass training and do the job on the line is a testament to your ability.

When I was hired at my current airline, I couldn't buy a beer, coffee, food etc. I had so many former Pan Am & Eastern pilots tell me that as long as I had a half wing (union probationary year) that my money was no good. I felt like part of the team from day one, and knew that as long as I brought a good attitude and exepcted ability to the job that the Capt's had my back.

So there are two types of people - those who can make your first year hell or those who can help you celebrate arriving at you're new job.

I was overwhelmed with the welcome that I got as a new hire - and I can't let a new hire pay for anything & I go out of my way to welcome them. For me, new hires are an asset, not a target.

We're labor, and if we don't take care of each other - who will?

Its all attitude. If you have a good one you'll be fine. There will always be a certain amount of friendly "harassment" no matter what amount of time you have. There will also always be a few jerks in any career field that want you to be as miserable as they are. However if YOU are the jerk or have an abrasive personality then you may be given more than subtle encouragement to take your attitude elsewhere. Remember that in this business everyone generally loves pilots who are junior to them unless they are given a strong reason not to.

I like where this thread has gone - Attitude IS everything. Be humble, appreciative, and respectful - You'll be everybody's best friend and asset.

There are a few super-arrogant new-hire LTP's out there that just give all of us a bad name. Don't add to the problem and you're golden ;-)

Enjoy!

Agreed. This is what I wanted to hear.

Attitude is everything...but don't suck either!:cool:

Haha, yeah - Don't forget to fly the Airplane fairly well too - or atleast don't give your coworkers anything to talk about in the crew-room ;-)

i'm with the last posts, the only people i normally hear complain about low time pilots are the ioe check airmen, and they typically only talk about things when people simply can't fly the airplane. they understand the learning curve is large, and the line isn't the sim, but they do expect that after 25-30 hours in the plane that you can reasonably fly the airplane and actually assist the captain if things got bad.

Just show up, do your best not to complain to much, and try to play yourself off the captain and flight attendants personalities, and you should be set, and you won't find yourself getting ditched on the overnights, you'll just ditch that complaining, 68 year old flight attendant who keeps saying "This isn't as fun as it used to be when i was at TWA"

spending a little too much time in "charm school" are we? just kidding. thats good advice.

If you think you can make it though training without a problem go for it because if you wash out that is going to hurt you for ever. Not to sound like a jerk but do your self a favor and don't tell anyone your time.