Starting Regional Pay
 

So let’s assume no furloughs at airlines happen come October. I’m seriously debating entering this crazy field. I currently work aircraft maintenance for a DOD contract. The pay is decent(40hr), but tired of breaking my back doing what I do and never seeing an end in sight since there is no chance of promotion or upgrades where I work. Also in the Air Guard doing Avionics, NDI before that.

Me and the wife have talked about me going overseas for a year to come back, pay off all debt and then me start flight school with the hope of me getting to a regional within the next 5 years or so before I turn 45(37 at the moment) and maybe have a 20 year career at the airlines. If you had to take a guess, without sign on bonuses, what would you say starting regional pay is right now? 40, 50, 60k? I know I’m not even there yet, but just curious as to what kind of money I’d be losing the first couple years as a FO compared to what I make now.

Around 45k before taxes first year at min credit (75 hours a month)

I am 35. Similar situation. Researched the crap out of it. 40-50k first year- no bonuses. 50k second year. 90k when upgrade complete. I am hoping for skywest as it is commutable with my current firefighter career. I figure I need to do 18 months working both careers to pay off the loans then I can make a decision about which way to go. Job stability working for local government is worth a lot more right now.

I have about 75k invested and think I did it on the cheap end for a 141 program. I owned a plane once I got my commercial then CFII'd to get my hours. Now sitting at R-ATP minimums. 61k in student loans paying minimal interest on (thanks bailouts)

Now I am just waiting until the hiring starts again or until my regular career overtime returns. Either way I need the economy to restart.

I did not consider flying abroad but with how many pilots are without jobs worldwide I wouldn't count on much of anything for a while because even as a 1000 hour cfi its getting hard to find flying work. United guys are taking 135 jobs. 135 jobs are taking 91 jobs. Furloughed and about to be Furloughed regional guys are taking whats left of the cfi and jump zone work. Fortunately I can play the waiting game at this point. Its probably a good time to start training because 2 years from now will be better

Good luck

Under airline profiles lists the pay rates for the Regionals. You will probably average 85 - 90 hours of credit a month. Add on about $500 a month per diem, and that is what you will make before taxes.

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Aviation Careers Podcast ? A Podcast about Achieving Your Aviation Career Goals

It depends on the regional. For budget purposes, take the monthly guaranteed hours, multiply by the hourly rate, and multiply again by 12. That'll give you the minimum that you can gross.

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT budget over minimum guarantee, and do not budget per diem, unless you like sweating bullets over finances during lean times.

I’m curious to see what regional pay is like in 2-3 years once hiring does resume. Supply and demand, yanno...

Crazy that starting fire fighter pay in Texas is mid $50’s, for 6 months of training. Yet a few years, numerous check rides and a $70k debt later you’re lucky to get a $45k a year regional job.

The sign on bonus may be a thing of the past but if they eliminate it they will discourage many career changer that just can’t afford the pay cut. And let’s be honest, during the last few good years the majority of new hires were career changers 35-50 year olds.

Wait till you find out that regional FO's and sometimes Captains make less than senior mainline flight attendants.

Then you realize this segment of the industry only exists to exploit you.

But, does a 3rd year firefighter make over $100k, and a 20 year firefighter make $350k?

Honesty here in California. Easily yes to both with a pension. I cleared well over $100,000 my second year as a firefighter/paramedic and most our captains make $300,000 with OT. That’s with out gaming the system.

All of our pay is public info at transparent California.com. Look at various fire depts to see what many guys doing this make. It was the number factor that made me switch from airlines to this career, and of course stability.

If you are handy ... ESPECIALLY if you have an A&P, buy your own plane. 500 hours in a 172 you own and maintain is real cheap

If you are chasing bonuses to choose a Regional you are probably making poor decisions to begin with. They were only there to mask poor pay/working conditions so they could still attract applicants. Pilot unions absolutely hated them because as long as they kept attracting suckers (oops, mean FOs) there was no reason for the regional to improve the contract.

Pre-covid I always told people who asked the key was to look at year 3 CA pay, because almost everywhere you can upgrade by then and that is when the money starts rolling in. Any bonus you may have missed out on was quickly erased. Endever and Republic were the best for those. Now my advice is to take whatever job you can get first, and thank your lucky stars you actually got a job offer in this environment. If you are still holding out for a bonus you are in for a real attitude adjustment.

How easy is it to make captain? Once you get there, how long until retirement? The pension helps, but I don't think many firemen can work to age 65 (and get another fire-fighting gig after mandatory retirement).

Also pay is commensurate with COL, which is why it's higher in big metro areas in CA. My friend's husband is a firefighter in NC... she *****es all the time that he only makes like $30K, and that she can't do airlines because of his work schedule.

Airlines you commute if you want big QOL in a low COL area (if the tradeoff is worth it to you).

Fire/police has aviation beat hands down for stability though.

California is a cesspool.

Then why do the unions let them get away with it?

100% agree. Working here until I can collect my pension and then back to Texas.

They fall for the dangling carrot routine.

I agree completely I only moved out to California because I saw what some cities pay their firefighters. It’s a very physical job and there is no way I could do it till 60 nonetheless 65. After spending eight years of the lost decade at a regional I was ready for a change. Hopefully I can retire from this with a pension in a few years and return to the airline gig.

Why do you think there was a “““shortage”””? Spend tens of thousands of dollars and spend half the month in a hotel/crash pad to make what an ASSISTANT manager at a big box retailer does as an RJ captain (store managers smoke the regionals in pay)? Say what you want about millennials, but they realized what a joke that was which forced regionals to pay better wages. We’ll see how the dust settles of the next yearish in regards to the labor market.

Please leave California behind when you come to Texas.

I am born and bred Texas for over 30 years of my life. I consider this a short stop in California. I am actively trying to bring Texas to California.

They don't sound very useful then.

It’s a lost cause. Time to come home and help us hold down the fort from those Californians fleeing California and trying to bring it with them.

I've been trying as well, sadly doesn't seem to have had much of an effect...

This is a fair argument, get rid of sign on bonus you get rid of career changers. Then all your egg are in these young Gen Z kids. Cue in regional sponsored zero to hero programs or *gasp* pay for training jobs. The whipsaw continues.

Yeah but... They make you run into burning buildings...

By contrast, the biggest threat on a 4 day is spilling coffee on my one pilot shirt on the van to the overnight on Day 1...

That's how supply and demand labor markets work. Now we need pilots to change careers to bring things back in balance. We'll see what happens in October but assuming no furloughs is fairly illogical a priori.

Things will improve but your base case assumption should be a long slog. Hopefully we can hold the line and avoid a tidal wave of consessions. But to expect any gains for the next 2-3 years is extremely unrealistic.

The only way we got where we are today was the pipeline virtually stopping for at least half a decade.

Thanks for the replies guys. I’m going to give it until October 1 at least to see how the industry goes. Hopefully no layoffs for any of you guys, but if massive layoffs occur I see myself pushing back starting for a year since all the furloughed pilots would have to be brought back over time.

I'm glad to hear this. Nothing against us pilots, but while it doesn't require nearly as much financial investment, being a firefighter is far more dangerous, more difficult, and and more important than being an airline pilot. Compensation rarely has anything to do with how important a job is, but I'm glad to hear the firefighters there are being compensated as well as we are. You guys deserve it.

Zero to hero and PFT programs would be a much more difficult sell in today’s world. The young people will have all the information from going online and realize what a horrible deal it is.

I don’t think it’s as hard as you think, that’s why it worked in the late 90s and early 00s. When the job market is crap and the only way to the right seat is to pay $5-10k for a type, people will pay it to get a job. Sad but it was the way it was. When you are young the allure of flying a shiny jet to get those Instagram likes is a pretty easy sell. I was even looking at Comair at the time, they were king of the PFTs.

i spent almost 10 years as a firefighter/paramedic in Texas. First year pay for me in 2004 was $26,000

wheb I finished up in 2013 i was up to around 50k

not great. city of 100,000

Might I ask exactly what PFT programs stand for? I’ve heard 0 to hero with ATP, but never PFT.

Pay For Time. Generally seen as another way to drag down the profession. Also connected to a series of regional crashes in the 2000s.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/f...m-academy.html

https://www.flyingmag.com/safety/tra...s-alternative/

It was downright eerie how many GIA alumni were involved in various regional accidents in that era.

Agreed. One almost can’t help making a correlation.

Id say a full decade!

So regardless of what happens comes October now might be a good time to start training?

PFT generally stood for “Pay for Training” which was widespread rather than “Pay for Time” which was less so.

Pay for training required the job applicant to pay the airline for their initial training. After the checkride you started getting paid, all $17/hour or so

pay for time was buying 250 or 500 or 1000 hours of right seat time. There were ads in the back of flying magazine, you can get everything from beech 99 to 737. In this situation you were paying to be a required crewmember.