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-   -   If he was your DPE, you must retake checkride (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/130502-if-he-your-dpe-you-must-retake-checkride.html)

USMCFLYR 07-31-2020 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 3102624)
It's not undercover or a clandestine operation, most likely it was discovered through this. The Designee Management System (DMS) is a new computer system, but the policy below from the order is what's been in place for years. The policy was put in place due to previous incidents of DPEs not conducting tests.

FAA Order 8000.95 CHG 5:



This is a required action for ASIs overseeing DPEs. This is conjecture, but it's likely that one of the recently tested persons decided to be honest and further investigation showed that the guy was handing out certificates/ratings without testing.

I did not know about that process for interviewing recent certificated applicants.
I was not suggesting that the CURRENT process was 'undercover', but that maybe such a program would be needed to check for complete evaluations.

Now that you point out the process in use - and one that obviously still relies on the truthfulness of the applicant - I wonder if anything will change. Doubtful. Like you know - this is not the first time this has happened. Do the ASIs get any type of debrief about such occurrences? Does a letter go out explaining what happened in detail, how it was brought to light. I'd be interested to know, but some would probably say that if the information was put out, unscrupulous ASIs/DPEs would use that as a learning tool on how to beat the system.

I wish there was some way to trust the offender and get a more accurate list of who he might have not given a proper checkride too instead of just saying every checkride for the last XX number of years. This one went one for quite some time. I also personally hope this guy gets in A LOT of trouble. The FAA won't be sued in this case IMO, but I wonder if he could personally when conducting checks as a DPE at least for any expenses incurred as a such to individuals having to retest (or lost wages). Can there be a Class Action lawsuit against a individual?

firefighterplt 07-31-2020 01:06 PM

I can’t see why you couldn’t...but there is always the age old problem of collecting from an uninsured individual. IANAL but many suits can be wiped away via bankruptcy—then the plaintiffs are stuck with legal fees and nothing to show for it.

JamesNoBrakes 07-31-2020 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 3102725)
I did not know about that process for interviewing recent certificated applicants.
I was not suggesting that the CURRENT process was 'undercover', but that maybe such a program would be needed to check for complete evaluations.

Now that you point out the process in use - and one that obviously still relies on the truthfulness of the applicant - I wonder if anything will change. Doubtful. Like you know - this is not the first time this has happened. Do the ASIs get any type of debrief about such occurrences? Does a letter go out explaining what happened in detail, how it was brought to light. I'd be interested to know, but some would probably say that if the information was put out, unscrupulous ASIs/DPEs would use that as a learning tool on how to beat the system.

I wish there was some way to trust the offender and get a more accurate list of who he might have not given a proper checkride too instead of just saying every checkride for the last XX number of years. This one went one for quite some time. I also personally hope this guy gets in A LOT of trouble. The FAA won't be sued in this case IMO, but I wonder if he could personally when conducting checks as a DPE at least for any expenses incurred as a such to individuals having to retest (or lost wages). Can there be a Class Action lawsuit against a individual?

I've seen notices go out about having to conduct mass-reexaminations due to designated examiners. I don't see one on FSIMS for this, but it might be coming? I don't know of any way to determine which certifications were legit and which were not. As far as being liable, sure, the person is liable, but I'm not sure how someone would bring a suit. Perhaps if this caused them to lose their job, but then if said person also knew they didn't actually take a test, it would probably get thrown out. If it was someone who took a legit test and it had repercussions, I'm sure they could be liable. Then it's about convincing a jury, but I'm not enough of a legal expert to know how that would or could go down. Class action, I don't know?

SonicFlyer 08-01-2020 03:05 PM

AOPA did an article about this:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...-reexamination

at6d 08-09-2020 12:46 PM

This isn’t the first time this has happened. Maybe ten years ago an operator in the southwestern US had a designee get tagged, and something like 600 folks either had to 609 or prove they earned an additional rating afterwards.

brocklee9000 08-09-2020 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by at6d (Post 3107405)
This isn’t the first time this has happened. Maybe ten years ago an operator in the southwestern US had a designee get tagged, and something like 600 folks either had to 609 or prove they earned an additional rating afterwards.

Fast Eddie, at Sheble. I heard numbers varying from 600 to 800. I forget how far back in time the retests went, but it was a similar setup. Surprise, you just got a notification from the FAA. Set up a checkride with us within the next couple weeks or else. I can’t even imagine the dread someone would experience in these situations.

DarkSideMoon 08-09-2020 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by brocklee9000 (Post 3107422)
Fast Eddie, at Sheble. I heard numbers varying from 600 to 800. I forget how far back in time the retests went, but it was a similar setup. Surprise, you just got a notification from the FAA. Set up a checkride with us within the next couple weeks or else. I can’t even imagine the dread someone would experience in these situations.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Unless there is evidence of wrongdoing by an applicant, why should someone have to retake a ride because the FAA failed to adequately monitor and audit their people.

terks43 08-09-2020 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 3107424)
The whole thing is ridiculous. Unless there is evidence of wrongdoing by an applicant, why should someone have to retake a ride because the FAA failed to adequately monitor and audit their people.

Because the FAA wants all the perks of industry oversight without any of the responsibility. See the 737 MAX debacle. The entire organization is full of guys that want the power without the responsibility.

Roy Biggins 08-09-2020 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by terks43 (Post 3107456)
Because the FAA wants all the perks of industry oversight without any of the responsibility. See the 737 MAX debacle. The entire organization is full of guys that want the power without the responsibility.

#Truth

.....

firefighterplt 08-09-2020 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by terks43 (Post 3107456)
Because the FAA wants all the perks of industry oversight without any of the responsibility. See the 737 MAX debacle. The entire organization is full of guys that want the power without the responsibility.

It’s been a long time since I’ve read a statement with such truth.


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