If he was your DPE, you must retake checkride
 

This really sucks...


https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.555.pdf

Is there a story for public consumption?
CVG FSDO have a bad reputation?

He's been handing out ratings for twelve years, and they want to re-examine everyone now?

The rumor in the Facebook groups was that he allegedly gave out some ratings without giving an actual checkride.

We obviously don't need examiners handing out licenses to people who don't meet the standard but it is pretty rediculous that they let this go on for 12 years.

What a nightmare it would be to have two weeks to go take a check ride you passed 10 years ago.

I'd be like sure I'll retake my private, just come observe me in the 777 sim on my next recurrent.

Wow, I agree we don’t need people out there flying that didn’t pass a test but pretty ridiculous to give someone 2 weeks to prepare for a check ride they may have taken 12 years ago. Guy used to be the chief flight instructor at Sporty’s too. Not good.

Surely some legal savvy pilot/lawyer is involved in this and is filing some kind of injunction with some kind of judge/pilot.

Man it’s raining good news these days.

More likely to go after the DPE personally.
With this sort of liability the DPE rates should be going higher than they already are. The FSDO employees should have to reapply for their jobs if it is this drastic.

That's like spitting out time and money to train again. It's quite unfortunate but I think the time frame is too tight. Wx permitting too. I wish all those affected the best of luck in their upcoming check rides both at home and overseas.

Buddy’s dad was an A-10 driver way back in the day. Got his AMEL and MEI through mil equivalency. FSDO told him the A-10 wasn’t center thrust, and OKC never kicked it back. Cool. He went on to teach dozens of guys how to fly piston twins over the years.

Way down the road, the FAA figured out that he shouldn’t have been given the unrestricted AMEL and corresponding MEI because the jet was then considered center thrust. Threatened to pull his ME ratings and the ME ratings of every student he taught. The FAA claimed that none of their dual received was valid.

My memory on the details is foggy, but if I remember correctly, he fought for the students—basically if the training wasn’t up to par, how did they pass the ride with the DPE? I believe they ended up either leaving the students alone or having them re-test, and he surrendered his MEI.

That’s asinine. The FAA is absolute garbage sometimes. I just don’t understand their logic.

Sometimes?....

Who is the ‘they love in this logic of “how did they” let this go on so long?
The ‘they’d’ are an unscrupulous DPE and all of the unscrupulous pilots who loved the fact they THEY got an easy/incomplete/or nonexistent checkride and still walked away with their new ticket.

Some of the posters also need to actually read the document to understand how different certificates and such are handle or the scheduling is being arraigned (e.g. no you don’t need to take your PVT checkride again if you are flying a -777)

I used to think that too...until I started dealing with EASA. The FAA is a model of efficiency and wonderful customer service when compared to most CAAs that fall under the EASA banner. Just for an example, a colleague who had a German license and had his bag with his license stolen on a train. He was grounded, without pay, until he could get a new license. No online forms, or immediate verification/authorization like with the FAA. No, he had to snail mail all of his original written test and check ride reports, plus send a notarized copy of his passport. It took over two months for him to get a new license. Some CAAs, like in Spain or Italy, it can take in excess of six months. If you can find a CAA in EASA that can do it in under two weeks, that is an efficient CAA. So yeah, the FAA now looks quite reasonable and efficient in comparison. Still, this situation sucks for the innocent people involved. Don't feel sorry for the folks who accepted the license without the check ride though, they deserve it for cheating the system.

I seriously doubt that story as the Germans are very efficient and straight laced.
We musst have ze paperz kinda thing.
The UK CAA? They actually answer emails.....unlike a certain Federal Administration in the USA :rolleyes:


So here’s my question: You’ve been given a certificate by lazy Santa over here and now you’ve got to take a checkride with a Fed who is most likely only legally not practically b-a-r-e-l-y current in a light single let alone proficient in giving checkrides.
How is that any better?

As far as out foreign friends that need to come back and take a ride....
If you have a foreign conversion based on a US certificate (that has no expiration date) a foreign aviation administration will have no knowledge of any certificates that have been declared ‘invalid’ or otherwise suspended or revoked. These data bases are not connected and information is not shared or disseminated.
Yea for European privacy laws.
So you have a valid Europa-land conversion and your US certificate is at the bottom of a drawer unless it needs to be carried.

Rampcheck:
Papiere und schnell!
Hands over EASA conversion and US certificate.
:rolleyes:

Germans are nowhere near as efficient and straight laced as you'd think. In so many ways Germany is like going back in time 30 years. In most smaller cities it is hard to find a place that accepts credit cards. Since living in Europe I have completely abandoned cash except when I go to Germany. I have been rudely surprised by Germany's love affair with cash more than once. Last summer I had to spend an hour running around Hildesheim in a downpour trying to find an ATM because we couldn't find a restaurant that would take cards. Happened a few years ago on the outskirts of Munich as well. I am sure you don't need to be reminded of the efficiency of the new Berlin airport. My experiences with Germany have been nowhere near as efficient as they have been in their neighboring countries, particularly the ones to the north. I have worked with many German pilots for the past several years, and none of them are happy with the German CAA, and the general recommendation in Europe is, if possible, to avoid getting licensed through Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Germany because they all are well known for headaches.

The UK CAA does work pretty well. I did my ATPL theory exams through the UK. But they are known for being extremely pedantic and very much in love with paperwork and high fees.

Personally I have worked with the UK, Irish, and Danish authorities and the FAA beats them all. Those three have about the best reputations in Europe and judging from colleagues who have been licensed in just about every EASA country, that seems to hold true. After Brexit, my last company recommended people who held UK licenses to switch over to Irish, Danish, or Swedish because in their experience, those are the easiest countries to deal with in terms of CAA bureaucracy.

Alrighty Then, back to the original question.
What is the backstory on the need for retest? What was Herr Puehler doing or not doing, how did it go along for 12 years, and how did it finally come to light?

"I'd be like sure I'll retake my private, just come observe me in the 777 sim on my next recurrent."

You went from ppl to the 777 in ten years? Must be nice...

16 but who's counting.

I would argue that it's possible in 5 if you go the ACMI route

That is certainly true. I know a guy/kid who barely had 1500 hours and that's what happened with him.

I wasn't talking about acmi. There is a 22 year old thats the youngest 777 FO at southern. I'm talking about getting on with the big 3. How many pilots go from private pilot to american or united or delta in less than ten years? 14 years in the military ten years to flow through roughly and probably more than ten years to climb the ladder on the civilian side.

Yes if you're in heavy metal and you got your ATP in 121/135 or from any other examiner you're good for work. Worst that would be on hold would be PPL and/or CPL, if you actually still had that on your cert (most of us still have an ASEL CPL). Also CFI, that would suck.

But it would be possible if you came to the airlines with an ATP in hand to have multiple type ratings, but still have your original ATP in jeopardy if issued by the guy in question.

That's a good way of putting it... they were pretty darn efficient in the 19th century, wrote the books on modern warfare. By comparison to their peers they were pretty darn efficient during the Big One. Today they are pretty darn efficient... for the 1970's. Touristy areas are more willing to ease the transition of your money, off the beaten path it's like you said.

if you had your ATP issued by the person yes....but I was addressing the actual question the poster opined.
when you actually take time to read the letter issued then you see that is impossible but you had every ticket issued by said examiner which again I think is impossible so it is a moot point.

I’m willing to bet not every one of the pilots that scheduled an exam with this dude knew he was unscrupulous and may have felt that had gotten a real checkride. I feel bad for those guys. Two weeks to catch up on something you may not have done in years is tough.

As to the rest of your post about people needing to read the doc (I did out of curiosity), I take these posts about come see me in my 777 as more in jest. No reason to take it seriously. You should too.

I took some of it in jest, some of it as people are uneducated about what the document actually says. Those who wrote what they wrote know which category they fall in. Many may have had real checkrides. We don’t know. I feel sorry for those that may have. They got caught up in unscrupulous actions. It is one those people that screwed their fellow pilots over. It isn’t the first time and likely won’t be the last. It is sad to say that DPEs (and evening ASIs) have been less than truthful about Their actions in the past. These positions require some faith of purpose and integrity and often the dollar overrides.

It is almost as despicable as not tipping a van driver, sorry had to say it. In all seriousness though, its horrible for those that got caught up in this. I am honestly amazed it has happened as I have not once, in well over 20 years of taking check rides, ever had one that was anything less than above board.

On another board, someone did some research and posted three others letters like this one from similar examples.
i work with many ex-ASIs and they told me some stories of similar circumstances too.
The FAA actually has some type of investigative branch. I don’t know how you would catch these DPEs unless it were some type of undercover ‘give me check ride and let’s make sure you are doing it right’ operation or some checked student pilot/upgrade pilot turns the DPE in if s/he even knows what is/is not a valid check.

I know of at least one ASI who was cooking the books.
———-
Teterboro-based aviation safety inspector Harrington Bishop, 63, entered a guilty plea in a federal court Thursday on charges of receiving illegal gratuities in exchange for what court documents allege were hundreds of unauthorized pilot check rides. Bishop had been assigned to the Teterboro FSDO. On available days off, weekends, and holidays, from May 2004 to February 2011, he allegedly took pilots on check rides at Cave Flight School at Flying W Airport in Medford, NJ. Pilots who flew with him on those occasions ultimately numbered in the hundreds. None of the flights were authorized, each one illegally paid Bishop, and in almost every case a certificate was granted to the tested pilot.
Pilots were allegedly tested for anything from private to airline transport pilot certificates. Bishop allegedly collected tips that amounted to $300 per flight on average from the hundreds of pilots he managed to fly with over seven years. This, in spite of the fact that while acting in an official capacity, Bishop was not allowed to accept payment from pilots in exchange for his services. By Bishop's own account, he passed almost every pilot who flew with him on those occasions. Each pilot then became officially certificated by the FAA as a result of Bishop's work. The official charge against Bishop was one count of receiving illegal gratuities while acting as a public official. He now faces a maximum potential fine of $250,000 and up to two years in jail.
———
I’m not sure if a DPE would get jail time, but this former ASI got some prison time.

https://www.nj.com/gloucester-county...pemberton.html

He must have had a pretty good thing going at McGuire AFB!

Not many, they youngest guy in my regional class (22) got hired at Delta after about 2.5-3 years. Assuming he started his private at 18, that’s 7 years. I’m sure some people do it faster.

And now everyone affected gets to put it on their applications and explain it if they’re lucky enough to ever get another interview.

Did anyone notice he is an FAA employee?
 

https://www.federalpay.org/employees...hler-michael-a

https://www.federalpay.org/resources/img/logo.png Federal Employee Profile — Michael A. Puehler

https://www.federalpay.org/resources...sportation.png
FG-13

Michael A. Puehler

Title: Aviation Safety Personnel

Agency: Federal Aviation Administration

In 2018, Michael A. Puehler was an Aviation Safety Personnel at the Federal Aviation Administration in Clermontville, Ohio. began working at the Federal Aviation Administration in 2008 with a starting salary of $67,964. Since then, 's salary has increased to $106,970 in 2018.

Michael A. Puehler is a FG-13 under the similar to the general schedule payscale.

help me understand this “tipping” business. Is that above and beyond the check ride fee? So it’s ok to charge $1000 for a ride, but not accept a $300 tip? Might be why rides have gotten so expensive. DPE’s are building a tip into the fee.

No......he was charging for the checkride (doing it on his off hours).
The news media called them tips.
As an ASI he wasn’t suppose to be giving checkrides out side of business and Feds don’t charge for checkrides.

This newest guy I thought at one time was an ASI, but was currently a DPE.

this is quite the stretch to blame an examiner's negligence on the applicant, particularly with PPL candidates who have never even taken a checkride before. For nonexistent exams, sure, but what exactly do you think an applicant is supposed to do when they get an "easy" checkride? Where even is the bar for that? Nobody would ever tell a DPE to examine them again because that checkride was too easy. It isn't the applicant's job to determine how "easy" or "hard" an exam should be; that's the examiner's responsibility. Your claim assumes all of Puehler's applicants went to him because of his reputation, which, I find very hard to believe.

I acknowledged part of what you say in a later post:
” let’s make sure you are doing it right’ operation or some checked student pilot/upgrade pilot turns the DPE in if s/he even knows what is/is not a valid check.”

But the ACS is drilled into an applicants head.
if you know there is air work to be done on the checkride, because your CFI has been preparing you for let’s say steep turns or stalls and then you do neither, wouldn’t you maybe make mention of it to your CFI afterwards?

got it. Thanks!

So I guess the cost of this is the responsibility of each individual pilot. What about the people that maybe haven’t flown in years? The really sad part is the airlines will hold this against applicants because it looks bad on paper. Whenever they do hire years down the line from now they will have stacks of applicants who don’t have this on their record.