Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)
-   -   Future of regionals? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/130547-future-regionals.html)

Excargodog 07-28-2020 05:33 PM

Future of regionals?
 
https://airwaysmag.com/industry/the-...onal-airlines/

A few opinions...

One excerpt:


Regional airlines face negative effects of changes in consumer behavior exacerbated by COVID-19. Madhu Unnikrishnan, Editor Airline Weekly notes that in the United States “we are hearing that people now say they’d rather drive 3-5 hours than fly. Whether that lasts remains to be seen, but if airfares do eventually rise, people may be more likely to drive a few hours to a hub rather than take a short connecting flight. Regional airlines probably have a tough future ahead of them.”

JediCheese 07-28-2020 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3100858)

They say that, and it's somewhat true. But I doubt people are going to drive 5 hours ALB - NYC and pay the outrageous parking fees.

bradthepilot 07-28-2020 05:57 PM

Maybe, maybe not. The article is long on opinions, but pretty short on actual data.

LoneStar32 07-28-2020 05:59 PM

The issue comes when this thing lasts so long that people's habits permanently change. Plus if the whole AOC green deal anti-airline thing takes hold under Biden, then things could really get bad for us. I may have to go back to hooking.

Excargodog 07-28-2020 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by bradthepilot (Post 3100874)
Maybe, maybe not. The article is long on opinions, but pretty short on actual data.

Foretelling the future has always been like that...

bradthepilot 07-28-2020 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3100880)
Foretelling the future has always been like that...

Agreed.

That's a big part of the reason I tend to ignore any and all such things, and try really hard to avoid making predictions myself, unless there is actual data to support such a conclusion.

Excargodog 07-28-2020 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by bradthepilot (Post 3100888)
Agreed.

That's a big part of the reason I tend to ignore any and all such things, and try really hard to avoid making predictions myself, unless there is actual data to support such a conclusion.

yet it had some interesting data I had been unaware of:


These headwinds have resulted in severe financial losses, downsizing, multiple trips to the bankruptcy courts, and liquidations. In recent years, the overall departure numbers of these regional airlines declined from a 2007 peak of 5.14 million to 3.86 million in 2018.=10pt =10pt
a loss of 1.28 million (from 5.14 million) departures during a period when air travel was growing is surprising to me. Clearly, some of that may be attributed to larger regional jets, but even so...

tallpilot 07-28-2020 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by JediCheese (Post 3100865)
They say that, and it's somewhat true. But I doubt people are going to drive 5 hours ALB - NYC and pay the outrageous parking fees.

That's not a great example because that route is reasonably well served by Amtrak. Look at the huge number of Canadians who cross the border to fly out of Burlington.

This environment is going to lead to ruthless revenue management. Anything that isn't consistently profitable or subsided is going to get cut. 5 flights per day from Des Moines to Chicago on both American and United? Fahget about it.

ninerdriver 07-28-2020 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3100891)
a loss of 1.28 million (from 5.14 million) departures during a period when air travel was growing is surprising to me. Clearly, some of that may be attributed to larger regional jets, but even so...

Less RJ departures, maybe, but I bet RJs flew many more miles. Before Covid, more of my LGA and JFK flights were of the 800-1200 mile variety than the 200-400 mile variety. JFK-DFW, JFK-ORD, LGA-STL, NYC-JAX... these were common 900 routes.

yakfisher 07-29-2020 02:19 AM

Worst part is the future of years of no
base movements, commuting to reserve, no upgrades, and crappy schedules until some movement returns. With no flying I wonder how long it will take for descent movement to come back. Yes retirements are still happening but airlines are downsizing so the ratio of pilots and flying won’t change much.

firefighterplt 07-29-2020 02:42 AM


Originally Posted by ninerdriver (Post 3100913)
Less RJ departures, maybe, but I bet RJs flew many more miles. Before Covid, more of my LGA and JFK flights were of the 800-1200 mile variety than the 200-400 mile variety. JFK-DFW, JFK-ORD, LGA-STL, NYC-JAX... these were common 900 routes.

I flew on regionals a whole lot back in the 2006-2008 timeframe and I remember it vividly. The airplanes were smaller for sure. For US Airways Express, lots of Dash 8 flying. I remember flying a Saab 340 from Hattiesburg to Memphis. I specifically remember a flight on a Crash 8 from PHL-ISP in 2007 with three passengers. Three. Flying half empty airplanes was common then, and flying standby was an absolute breeze.

Smaller airplanes, half empty flights, etc. Totally different. Comparing departures between now and then is like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

Rocketman 07-29-2020 03:09 AM


Originally Posted by ninerdriver (Post 3100913)
Less RJ departures, maybe, but I bet RJs flew many more miles. Before Covid, more of my LGA and JFK flights were of the 800-1200 mile variety than the 200-400 mile variety. JFK-DFW, JFK-ORD, LGA-STL, NYC-JAX... these were common 900 routes.


I agree, the role of the “regional airline“ has changed tremendously trough-out the years, when I was flying the 175 it was all major cities pairings, we were not flying “connecting” flights to the hubs, we were flying the same routes as the 737’s or the 320’s.
The question is if the majors will decide to fly only 737’s or 320’s on those routes and remove the “regionals” from their schedules.
They will do what is financially advantageous to them, whatever that might be.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LoneStar32 07-29-2020 05:31 AM


Originally Posted by yakfisher (Post 3100996)
Worst part is the future of years of no
base movements, commuting to reserve, no upgrades, and crappy schedules until some movement returns. With no flying I wonder how long it will take for descent movement to come back. Yes retirements are still happening but airlines are downsizing so the ratio of pilots and flying won’t change much.

When each major is hiring 1000 pilots a year again. I'll leave that up to you to guess when/if that will ever happen again.

ZeroTT 07-29-2020 05:41 AM

The role of network carriers is to aggregate demand. There’s a lot of money in connecting Birmingham and Montgomery to Seattle and Spokane. Regionals aren’t going away


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:21 AM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands