Passenger Removals and Masks
 

Seems to be happening a lot lately. I'm noticing a lot of crews immediately resorting to removal from the airplane over mask non compliance when in many cases a softer approach could be more effective.

I hate to see paying customers being kicked off when simple de-escalation methods work. Of course there are cases where the passenger is intoxicated/disorderly and that's a different situation.

What are you all seeing at your airlines in terms of how this is generally handled? Just curious.

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I stay out of cabin drama these days.

In the old days I could leverage my stripes and demeanor and often de-escalate, so everybody got to ride (which sometimes including calming the FA who was part of the problem).

But I don't want to be on the national news in a video clip which is edited for "newsworthiness" to remove the context and make my conduct appear outrageous.

If you're hoping to move on up, I'd suggest staying in the cockpit with the door shut when the natives are restless. The station has people for that.

Rick is right. The career/reputation risk is not worth it. I simply ask the flight attendant if (s)he is confident of compliance in an emergency situation. If not the passener gets to take the next flight.

I wish there weren't so many flight attendants who fall into what I call the prison guard archetype but training flight attendants is above my pay grade. As long as they obey me I will support them in their interactions with passengers even if I think they are wrong. If I can't trust them to follow my lead in an emergency then I'm making a phone call and one of us is getting a schedule change but that is very rare.

I'm noticing the opposite. I haven't kicked anyone off for a year and the flight attendants usually do use the softer approach a la ' I know I hate the mask too... But if you don't wear it then I could get in trouble'

not to be a contrarian, but they can’t be trusted to determine these things when it’s your hide that’s going to get blamed for booting people off. Had a FA the other day come up and insist that I boot someone off because they cussed at the FA. No, I don’t care if he hurt your feelings; I’m not kicking him off for that. Kicking paying pax off for stupid reasons gets you on the news

It’s not like they don’t get any advance notice of a mask requirement.
They agree to it when checking in.
”Well I’ve made it to the plane as now I’ll just pretend to be drinking water all the time” doesn’t fly…literally.
It’s been asked nicely, pointed out and reminded.
Out you go.
Other pax have rights also and they expect compliance and consequences.

In my experience the key is staying in your seat. Let the customer service personel handle these situations. Without a nice cell phone video of 'Captain Friendly' there isn't a story for anybody to run with.

Incidentally, I can count on one hand the number of times I threw someone off. In each case the passengers nearby clapped. That tells me everything I need to know. Those who witnessed most of the interactions thought the person was a jerk.

I start my trips with a briefing that I prefer de-escalation strategies. But again I always support my crew members even when they are wrong. You are free to make your own decisions about your leadership style.

Depends. Cussing in conversation out of frustration with the stew is one thing,cussing at in a threatening manner towards the sky waiter,thats an automatic do not pass go.


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Very few employers, in any sector, actually expect their customer service personnel to tolerate profane verbal abuse directed at them. I wouldn't, and I wouldn't tolerate it on behalf of other crew either. Customer is fired at that point.

That was in response to the “hurt feelings” comment a couple posts up


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i understand your position, and I think I probably would agree with you if we were given the same sets of circumstances. But I think it’s a problem if by “support your crew members” you mean “defer your captain authority to them.” I think that’s not what you mean, but it kinda reads that way if you let them make your decisions for you

Also to clarify, it was not verbal abuse I was describing. It was overhearing a pax cussing under his breath

probably a bad example without describing the whole event. Better example: FA came up and said someone was talking loudly on their cellphone during boarding and wanted them kicked off.
”oh. Did you ask them to talk quietly or turn off their phone?”
”no.”
”ok let’s try that first and see how that goes”

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

No one wants to be the next 10pm news star so deescalation (or a warning with a second chance) is always preferred but I agree with this. Passengers have had several warnings along with several acknowledgements agreeing to wear a mask. Be an adult and wear it or find a other mode of travel. I dislike masks as much as the next person but I can agree to wear it for a few hours on a plane without whining like a baby.

Yes passengers’ behavior needs to improve but at the same time we don’t need FAs being the mask police either. Gotta find a happy medium somewhere. Or just don’t enforce any rules and put those blinders on!

One of the things I’m noticing is the absolutely wild variations flight to flight on how much attention is given to proper mask wearing by the flight attendants. I was non-revving on a Delta flight out of Atlanta yesterday and it was absolute overkill. One flight attendant completely fabricated an FAA regulation. Multiple unscripted PAs, including before and after cabin service. On the flip side, I’ve been on flights where it never even gets brought up other than the initial scripted announcement.

A lot of the problems would be resolved by simply using discretion on when (or even if) addressing the issue.

That might work for other issues but the problem with masks is that many OTHER pax want it enforced, and the airlines want it enforced so as to not scare off half their customers. If pax complain the airlines will call the FA's on the carpet.

Different than say drinking booze from your own bottle, which nobody else cares about if you behave.

I totally get it and am well rehearsed in having to enforce something because others, who are obeying the rules, want it so... I guess what I want to say is that it sucks to the crew who get put in those situations to begin with due to those types of passengers who cannot behave like a normal adult. Everyone loses.