Passenger Removals and Masks
09-01-2021 | 05:06 PM
#1
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Passenger Removals and Masks
Seems to be happening a lot lately. I'm noticing a lot of crews immediately resorting to removal from the airplane over mask non compliance when in many cases a softer approach could be more effective.
I hate to see paying customers being kicked off when simple de-escalation methods work. Of course there are cases where the passenger is intoxicated/disorderly and that's a different situation.
What are you all seeing at your airlines in terms of how this is generally handled? Just curious.
I hate to see paying customers being kicked off when simple de-escalation methods work. Of course there are cases where the passenger is intoxicated/disorderly and that's a different situation.
What are you all seeing at your airlines in terms of how this is generally handled? Just curious.
09-01-2021 | 06:02 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I stay out of cabin drama these days.
In the old days I could leverage my stripes and demeanor and often de-escalate, so everybody got to ride (which sometimes including calming the FA who was part of the problem).
But I don't want to be on the national news in a video clip which is edited for "newsworthiness" to remove the context and make my conduct appear outrageous.
If you're hoping to move on up, I'd suggest staying in the cockpit with the door shut when the natives are restless. The station has people for that.
In the old days I could leverage my stripes and demeanor and often de-escalate, so everybody got to ride (which sometimes including calming the FA who was part of the problem).
But I don't want to be on the national news in a video clip which is edited for "newsworthiness" to remove the context and make my conduct appear outrageous.
If you're hoping to move on up, I'd suggest staying in the cockpit with the door shut when the natives are restless. The station has people for that.
09-02-2021 | 09:06 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: A320 FO
Rick is right. The career/reputation risk is not worth it. I simply ask the flight attendant if (s)he is confident of compliance in an emergency situation. If not the passener gets to take the next flight.
I wish there weren't so many flight attendants who fall into what I call the prison guard archetype but training flight attendants is above my pay grade. As long as they obey me I will support them in their interactions with passengers even if I think they are wrong. If I can't trust them to follow my lead in an emergency then I'm making a phone call and one of us is getting a schedule change but that is very rare.
I wish there weren't so many flight attendants who fall into what I call the prison guard archetype but training flight attendants is above my pay grade. As long as they obey me I will support them in their interactions with passengers even if I think they are wrong. If I can't trust them to follow my lead in an emergency then I'm making a phone call and one of us is getting a schedule change but that is very rare.
09-02-2021 | 11:52 AM
#5
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Rick is right. The career/reputation risk is not worth it. I simply ask the flight attendant if (s)he is confident of compliance in an emergency situation. If not the passener gets to take the next flight.
I wish there weren't so many flight attendants who fall into what I call the prison guard archetype but training flight attendants is above my pay grade. As long as they obey me I will support them in their interactions with passengers even if I think they are wrong. If I can't trust them to follow my lead in an emergency then I'm making a phone call and one of us is getting a schedule change but that is very rare.
I wish there weren't so many flight attendants who fall into what I call the prison guard archetype but training flight attendants is above my pay grade. As long as they obey me I will support them in their interactions with passengers even if I think they are wrong. If I can't trust them to follow my lead in an emergency then I'm making a phone call and one of us is getting a schedule change but that is very rare.
09-02-2021 | 02:02 PM
#6
All is fine at .79
Joined: Sep 2016
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From: Paahlot
It’s not like they don’t get any advance notice of a mask requirement.
They agree to it when checking in.
”Well I’ve made it to the plane as now I’ll just pretend to be drinking water all the time” doesn’t fly…literally.
It’s been asked nicely, pointed out and reminded.
Out you go.
Other pax have rights also and they expect compliance and consequences.
They agree to it when checking in.
”Well I’ve made it to the plane as now I’ll just pretend to be drinking water all the time” doesn’t fly…literally.
It’s been asked nicely, pointed out and reminded.
Out you go.
Other pax have rights also and they expect compliance and consequences.
09-02-2021 | 02:26 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: A320 FO
not to be a contrarian, but they can’t be trusted to determine these things when it’s your hide that’s going to get blamed for booting people off. Had a FA the other day come up and insist that I boot someone off because they cussed at the FA. No, I don’t care if he hurt your feelings; I’m not kicking him off for that. Kicking paying pax off for stupid reasons gets you on the news
Incidentally, I can count on one hand the number of times I threw someone off. In each case the passengers nearby clapped. That tells me everything I need to know. Those who witnessed most of the interactions thought the person was a jerk.
I start my trips with a briefing that I prefer de-escalation strategies. But again I always support my crew members even when they are wrong. You are free to make your own decisions about your leadership style.
09-02-2021 | 03:05 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
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not to be a contrarian, but they can’t be trusted to determine these things when it’s your hide that’s going to get blamed for booting people off. Had a FA the other day come up and insist that I boot someone off because they cussed at the FA. No, I don’t care if he hurt your feelings; I’m not kicking him off for that. Kicking paying pax off for stupid reasons gets you on the news
Depends. Cussing in conversation out of frustration with the stew is one thing,cussing at in a threatening manner towards the sky waiter,thats an automatic do not pass go.
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09-03-2021 | 12:02 PM
#9
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Very few employers, in any sector, actually expect their customer service personnel to tolerate profane verbal abuse directed at them. I wouldn't, and I wouldn't tolerate it on behalf of other crew either. Customer is fired at that point.
09-03-2021 | 12:03 PM
#10
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That was in response to the “hurt feelings” comment a couple posts up
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