Yes, we've kind of been having a circular argument about why an ATP is required to crew Air Transport operations.

The "1500 hour" rule actually added some exceptions to the old ATP rules (ie R-ATP).

So maybe the discussion should be how low can we go with R-ATP exceptions and under what circumstances? Unless anybody really thinks a 200 hour CPL from a 141 flight school really belongs in a passenger jet?

The problem with the whole ATP rule is, that it assumes Riddle grads are somehow more qualified with their R-ATPs than pilots with 135 IFR experience, where the opposite is true. It was just a great lobbying effort from the flight school industry.

There should be credit for 135 operation. It makes the 121 transition easy.

Thats a discussion that can be had, but folks need to stop saying that 1500 is a Arbitrary number that was recently added which it isn’t. R-ATP numbers, sure let’s discuss

I will ask this and I’ll preface it by saying this is coming from someone who’s not a pilot. What’s the idea in having the R-ATP for 1000 and 1200 hour guys? I can see it for military guys as those people get the best training under the most severe scenarios. However, what’s the difference in someone going to say Liberty University and getting a degree in aviation and only needing 1000 hours compared to someone who goes to basket weaving U and then getting top notch training from a former fighter pilot as his CFI as compared to some young kid from Riddle just trying to get his hours and get out? For this reason alone I’m looking at Liberty University to save 500 hours needed.

and that’s what is so brilliant about these R-ATP programs. Instead of getting 500 hours you get to pay extra tuition. And they get to advertise stuff like “get there first - seniority matters”

Amazing lobbying.

So if they do axe the 1500 hour rule, what happens with all the people who are already near atp mins? It wouldn't be fair a 2t0 hour guy can go to the airlines, while the 1300 hour guy worked his way to build the time.

Cause, you know, life is known for being fair.

what?!? Inconceivable!

As a previous R-ATP person who joined the regionals at 1000 hours. Best guess would be because of the structured training and in depth course work from Day 1 of school until degree certification vs the unstructured Part 61 training and lack of in-depth course work in that training environment. There is a big difference both environments. Is the course additional work worth the additional tuition expenses, no they are not.

If anyone should be crying about hours requirements it should be the small mom and pops charter companies.

They need a 1200 hour pilot to fly their pax in IFR.

By the time someone has built 1200 hours, they might as well just keep doing what they’re doing to get 300 more.

Not to mention, we were just discussing if 1500 hours is safe for someone to be an airline pilot.

In the 135 world you might be flying old, piston airplanes with limited capabilities. No extra engine to rely on. You’re MUCH more likely to have a mechanical emergency. You don’t have a dispatcher or ground crew for support. You don’t have a cabin crew or copilot for support. In the regional world you’ll fly the same approaches all the time. In 135 you’re likely going somewhere new most days. As the pilot shortage continues I don’t think many small scale 135’s will stay in business.