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-   -   How ugly might it get? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/135220-how-ugly-might-get.html)

havick206 10-11-2021 01:19 AM


Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer (Post 3303983)
Have a friend fail training at an airline because the instructor didn’t like him (personalities didn’t mix). Had to get the union, training dept, and management involved for the issue. Obviously, nothing came about it at the end of the day, but a return ticket home. Dude is the hardest work I know.

He wasn’t failed to keep him there longer, but I guess things like this do happen.

Honestly this sounds more like your friend had a fair go and just wasn’t up to the task. Your view is biased because he is your friend and he’s only telling you one side of the story. You see this pretty regularly when involved in the training/testing world (non flight school type stuff).

SoFloFlyer 10-11-2021 05:27 AM


Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 3307252)
Honestly this sounds more like your friend had a fair go and just wasn’t up to the task. Your view is biased because he is your friend and he’s only telling you one side of the story. You see this pretty regularly when involved in the training/testing world (non flight school type stuff).

Stories were consistent with statements of his sim partner. Known him for many years and he’s not one to make things up like that. There was more to the story than I care to share, but I see your point. Have another CFI that went there, failed training and said it’s because they’re racist. He’s really just a bad pilot.

MitchRapp 10-16-2021 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by Chunk (Post 3303991)
JC over at PSA is infamous for his shenanigans. He’s lost his APD letter at least once. I made it through clean but that place is known for dirtying up mil guys (and not just rotorheads)

I dont think he's there anymore. I worked with him at PSA. He is a good dude, just very thorough and by the book. Nothing wrong with that so long as you had all your ish in one sock. Our program, at the time, was not a good fit for rotor dudes. Not much slop. I can't speak to it now because almost everyone from when I was there has flowed or moved on.

The letter thing is also just glorified rumor.

daOldMan 10-16-2021 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by Chunk (Post 3303991)
JC over at PSA is infamous for his shenanigans. He’s lost his APD letter at least once. I made it through clean but that place is known for dirtying up mil guys (and not just rotorheads)

There is no truth to the "APD letter" thing. JC is tough but fair. He got his "reputation" because he had a few unprepared students in a row. I've never been a fan of his, but he has never judged a student unfairly. His pass/fail record is on par with every other APD in the regionals.

The "rotorheads" showed up completely unprepared from the nonsense that was going on down in Pensacola. The program wasn't designed to help them succeed and many failed. Guys that haven't flown anything in >10 years getting 100 hours in a 172 and then going into airline training was a recipe for disaster. A publicity stunt at best.

To think that any regional is failing people on purpose is absolutely asinine.

kevin18 10-16-2021 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by daOldMan (Post 3310378)
There is no truth to the "APD letter" thing. JC is tough but fair. He got his "reputation" because he had a few unprepared students in a row. I've never been a fan of his, but he has never judged a student unfairly. His pass/fail record is on par with every other APD in the regionals.

The "rotorheads" showed up completely unprepared from the nonsense that was going on down in Pensacola. The program wasn't designed to help them succeed and many failed. Guys that haven't flown anything in >10 years getting 100 hours in a 172 and then going into airline training was a recipe for disaster. A publicity stunt at best.

To think that any regional is failing people on purpose is absolutely asinine.

I’ll say this. I hooked a ride there. I own two of the strikes, called for nav on a hdg departure and busted a speed on a star. However, the first strike was an EP with a starter that I had never seen. It manifested completely differently than any other starter ep I had seen in training. So, I got out the checklist and went through the checklist. By the time I got the starter out 92 seconds had passed due to running through the checklist. What is that teaching? Rush through checklists? What is the result of breaking a limit? It’s a mx write up. Shouldn’t be a strike on a check ride. My opinion, like I said, I own the other two strikes, completely my fault. That first one though was hogwash.

dera 10-16-2021 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by kevin18 (Post 3310399)
IWhat is the result of breaking a limit? It’s a mx write up. Shouldn’t be a strike on a check ride. My opinion, like I said, I own the other two strikes, completely my fault. That first one though was hogwash.

Kinda like busting a flap, or gear speed limit? Mx write up as well. You don't think they should be strikes on a ride?

FlyGuy2021 10-17-2021 05:14 AM


Originally Posted by kevin18 (Post 3310399)
I own the other two strikes, completely my fault. That first one though was hogwash.

There are always more things that are going wrong than the official things that you get "busted" for. There always have to be official things that you messed up to bust a ride. That is what goes into the paperwork. What really costs you the bust are the small things that add up. The general sense of you having no idea what you are doing, lack of overall proficiency, and general feeling that you are not safe in the airplane yet. Those are what really causes an APD's hair to stand on end and start watching much closer.

As all examiners know, it isn't the students that you bust that keep you awake at night, it is the student that you know you should have busted that you let pass even though they should not be in the airplane yet.

kevin18 10-17-2021 05:57 AM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3310414)
Kinda like busting a flap, or gear speed limit? Mx write up as well. You don't think they should be strikes on a ride?

completely different. And you know that.

kevin18 10-17-2021 06:03 AM


Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021 (Post 3310455)
There are always more things that are going wrong than the official things that you get "busted" for. There always have to be official things that you messed up to bust a ride. That is what goes into the paperwork. What really costs you the bust are the small things that add up. The general sense of you having no idea what you are doing, lack of overall proficiency, and general feeling that you are not safe in the airplane yet. Those are what really causes an APD's hair to stand on end and start watching much closer.

As all examiners know, it isn't the students that you bust that keep you awake at night, it is the student that you know you should have busted that you let pass even though they should not be in the airplane yet.

I find it interesting, and tbh I’m glad things went down the way they did. I would have been furloughed and still on reserve at PSA. Instead I’ve got a clear path to a major and 1200 hours to build. The check bust obviously came up in the interview and I explained how things went and why I felt they did. They seemed happy enough with the explanation. Have had zero issues in two different jets and AQPs.

And yes, I do think that certain people do go after certain people. If you don’t think that’s the case you’re being blind and obtuse.

And yes, I’ve been a keeper of the standardization. You can fail any person on any day if you’re feeling like it.

Also, there weren’t other things going wrong. That was it. I’m objective enough to be able to, and usually am harder on myself than others, know what’s going well and what isn’t. Those were it. Which, ironically enough none of them would have happened in my current jet. LNAV is preselected on takeoff, it flies the speeds for you perfectly in the sim, and the starter is really a non issue with just an off switch.

rickair7777 10-17-2021 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021 (Post 3310455)
There are always more things that are going wrong than the official things that you get "busted" for. There always have to be official things that you messed up to bust a ride. That is what goes into the paperwork. What really costs you the bust are the small things that add up. The general sense of you having no idea what you are doing, lack of overall proficiency, and general feeling that you are not safe in the airplane yet. Those are what really causes an APD's hair to stand on end and start watching much closer. .

It's usually multiple things. But there are some things which be a bust regardless... RSoD obviously, failure to GA with an unstable LDG, etc.


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