Excargodog

This came up on a major thread. A regional pilot claiming that he should be given a break for an early training failure because his regional hadn’t treated him properly. Now that’s not the sort of claim that is generally well received at any major, and he received a fair amount of pushback, but what he was CLAIMING in essence was that his regional couldn’t keep pilots - especially captains - and as a consequence had decided to intentionally fail people in training over relatively minor issues, then just do a quick remedial train and pass for the PURPOSE of screwing up their PRIA just to slow their career progression and keep them at the regional longer. He implied that similar things were done at the “mandatory CA upgrade” at minimums, the ostensible purpose being to keep them at the regional as long as possible and stop them from going to competitive majors as an OTS hire before they would eventually progress to the major that owned the regional, tainted PRIA or not.

Question 1. Is this really happening anywhere? I know the promised retention bonuses are getting (at least by preCOVID standards) huge, but are any regionals really so desperate for retention that they would intentionally screw over their own pilots records just to be able to keep people ?
Question 2. There clearly are major airlines that have built their business models around regional feed and using their regional fleet (owned or contract) to hold down hub gates. As regional pilots become scarcer, do regional pilots get higher rates to keep them? Or does that flying get converted to mainline flying? Or what?

Because the pilot shortage will start to really bite at the regionals long before it does at the majors.

JayBee

Q1 - Yes.

Based solely on anecdotal evidence of communication with peers comparing prior yearS recurrent training with current years recurrent training

ZeroTT

That tactic would require a lot of people to coordinate. Seems unlikely

But the way things are looking doubt it will make much difference

KirillTheThrill

I’m not going to go searching for the original post, but I believe the shop said person was claiming foul play at was GoJet.

Yeah I believe it 100%, the owners of GoJet have been accused of much worse correct? If you read about what’s going on at CummutAir recently, it sounds like they’re on the brink of becoming the next Trans States, who supposedly shut down operations due to staffing issues.

What incentive do these instructors have hosing their students? Job security. Our entire world is built on individuals with self interests. Coordination from upper management wouldn’t be required. Most sim instructors probably have a better idea than anyone of their airlines current staffing issues.

Swakid8

I won’t say that is the intent, however, to answer your Questions.

Q1. Yes, it is happening. At my old regional shop, there were a few APDs out there busting folks for little stuff or a certain demographic of pilots failing with a certain APD (Military Rotor guys being busted by a certain individual). Pattern and trends don’t line.

Q2, I am not going to say that it is a strategic maneuver by the regionals to hold guys back. But it wouldn’t surprise me about GoJet.

If a regional trying to hold folks back, there other means. I know of other shops and my previous one loving to throw letters into ones files to delay one’s ability to flow by 2 years.

I will say that the training at the regionals aren’t great in comparison to Mainline or ACMI. The training environment at a Major, LCC, or ACMI is definitely more relaxed in terms of how the training department treats their new hires or folks in training/upgrades vs the regionals. It’s not even close. As a result, the quality of training and output at the regionals aren’t great…..

trip

Nope, it only requires one or two "enforcers" in the training department.

hercretired

on the other hand I have seen guys get hired at majors and Big-3 with checkride and training issues. The "big picture" theory applies. Was it 20 years ago? New in their career (ostensibly the case of this regional scenario) ? With otherwise good performance and resume filler? recommendation letters and guys "vouching for" the guy?

or a checkride failure every other year ?

some companies want applicants to disclose EVERYTHING even "additional training" needed at ANY STAGE post Private Pilot issuance.

Imagine the Instrument ticket/Private Pilot stage because they needed work on holding entries. some applications out there are "since obtaining your private pilot, have you EVER required additional training"

"lets polish up your holds, they are passable but lets tweak them. how about we do some holds tomorrow for 2 hours?"

airline career tubed?

no of course not

etc.

rickair7777

Yes, I believe it's happened in the past. Plenty of anecdotal evidence. Not sure about today. As someone said, it only takes a couple good 'ol boys and only a quiet word over a beer, not a massive, coordinated conspiracy.

Also as was mentioned, senior lifer types have a clear incentive to help stem the blood loss, even if nobody tells them to. Their comfy, reasonably lucrative gigs are on the line.

I have also heard of "retention bounties", but not sure if I believe it.

Swakid8

Still happens today….

tailwheel48

Sounds like a massive class action lawsuit in the future....