50 seat sunset
 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united...us-cities/amp/

Fifty-seat service going away as Kirby discussed

It's almost gone from my hometown, seriously thinking of buying a plane for family visits.

I don't believe this is because of what Kirby discussed. Several thousand hours of fly have been giving back to United by the regional carriers due to staffing issues.

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Air Whiskey pilots are so deep in denial about this… reminds me of Compass people in 2018-2019 when it was clear their Delta contract would not be renewed

I'm not in denial about anything. The flying was given back to United. Not taken. Unless this situation was purposefully created by United. We lost 40 to Aviate last month. 18 the first 2 weeks of November. There are no more sims available backing up the training pipeline. Sim dates are now pushing 4 months for new hires.

I know the majority of the routes canceled have been ZW routes but EVERY UA regional carrier gave hours back to UA this month. EVERY ONE.

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it is exactly what he said

“We’re struggling with that, we feel some obligation to keep the communities connected, but the economics ultimately aren’t going to work, and pilot shortages — you know, they’re getting squeezed.”

he said the pilot shortage (ie carriers giving back hours) makes the 50 seat model unworkable. And so they are winding down the flying

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepoin...view-iata/amp/

Its not just pilot shortages either, I know a lot of smaller stations are having trouble getting rampers and agents.

Delta pilots would love that. However tons of hours were given to their WO due to staffing issues over the summer.

But not every one has a fleet of obsolete 20 year old 200s with no prospects of new CPA flying

Yes, however, that doesn't mean I'm in denial of anything that is going on. Writing is on the wall but I'm not in a C level suite, and I suspect you aren't either.

ZW has a way of throwing a curveball into everyone's crystal ball...

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great if they do. But it’s hard to find a credible scenario where single-class 50-seat departures don’t decline substantially in the next year

Did it get removed?

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Lmao. Please get the government involved to force a private business to do something. Truly the pinnacle of small government libertarian thinking.

isn’t it funny how little these “constitutional protectors” know about the actual constitution?

It's a privately run forum. You have the right to say what you want. They have the right to do whatever they want with that. There's nothing commie about any of that.

Private businesses choosing how to run their business as they so choose makes them communist. Lmao

cant wait to see the consequences. surprised a Karen like you didn't ask to speak to the manager

United Airlines was forced to cut service to 11 secondary cities across the midwestern USA beginning in January due to the pilot shortage, the company’s chief executive officer says.

“It’s down to pilots,” Scott Kirby tells viewers of the Skift Aviation conference on 17 November. The pilot shortage is now real, we don’t have enough pilots to fly all the airplanes. It’s very simple.”


https://www.flightglobal.com/network...146481.article

*throws 2,000 Trans States and ExpressJet pilots to the curb*

“Hmmm, we can’t seem to find enough pilots”

Let me ask you, do you honestly believe a large portion of those pilots are still looking for work? Don’t think so, snatched up during this hiring spree. So, your comment is no longer valid.

It was years ago that I left.

But I still know people, that know people at one of those carriers. There were many who simply didn't/weren't able to move on. Many, for obvious reasons, un-hirable or simply didn't want to put in the work And that's on them....

On a side note, it's comical that the "contraction" of 50 seats jets (in this case) ISN'T due to their aged out airframes, inefficiency, level of discomfort/customer dissatisfaction, what have you....

....it's a lack of pilots.

Agreed there are a few with every regional that are unhireable at any other regional, LCC, or major. Not wanting to commute, skeletons in the closet, etc. But most will get on with another carrier when push comes to shove. This is an amazing time. I cannot recall anything like it in the last half a century, since the dawn of the jet age.

just for giggles, there was a time in the 60’s when the majors were hiring guys with wet commercials. Like 250 hr straight to the cockpit of a jet… course it was sitting sideways

There is definitely a lack of pilots wanting to enter the field. Some don’t want to do the work, some aren’t willing to put in the time it takes to get to a career company, while others won’t do it without a guaranteed outcome or defined timeframe. That is a problem, however the contraction of the 50 seat aircraft is also largely influenced by consumer demand and scope. Managers like Kirby would love to retire all of the 50 seaters and replace them with brand new 175’s and mainline aircraft where appropriate, but they can’t. The decision for the industry to shrink the 50 seaters is just as much influenced by scope, an aging fleet with no replacements, and customer complaints about a garbage product as it is a shortage of pilots. With increasing demand and limited airport capacity, the only way to meet that demand is with larger aircraft. Being that scope is maxed out, as gauge increases, the legacies grow and the regionals shrink.

Kirby is blaming the pilots rather than accept the consequences of his decision to not buy a SNB fleet. That unlocks the scope everyone says he wants. Sure he wants it, but only if someone else is paying for it.

true true unrelated

they can’t staff the planes they have right now so the least profitable routes get triaged

and yes he could fill more 76 seaters… but not from MLU-IAH

I thought for sure that he would follow Delta’s lead with the A220 coming out of the pandemic. It would have offered a great product for small to medium markets, given UAX up to 70 more 175’s, and facilitated the elimination of the single class 50 seaters. The brand would be greatly improved. He went a different route. Instead of a SNB, he ordered hundreds of max/neo’s, got no additional 175’s, and the single class 50 seaters are still going to be mostly phased out. I’m glad that the United pilots dug in their heels on scope. It forced Kirby’s hand and it turns out that he picked higher paying aircraft over a SNB. I guess time will tell which company picked the right path.

Agreed. I hope it works well. Though UA (and many others) has had history of doing poorly when they allow their feed to atrophy.

One of the things Kirby did very well when he came from AA that really put UA back in the game as OM was leading the company was to dramatically expand the network with all those old 50 seaters over the pretty strenuous market/wall street and customer objections. I truly hope that this currrent upgauging results in continued improved connectivity and is not just being driven by a CASM - only perspective. UAs strength is their network. Shrinkage in domestic network connectivity isn't what I'd be betting on out of the pandemic.

we will never find out but I bet he got the MAX for less than he would have gotten the 220. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cost per ASM are a lot lower on the MAX with low cost of capital, fleet commonality etc. but offer a lot more flexibility.

Yep, and more than half a century ago. Even before that, the jump seat was used for training and observing. Simulator, what’s a simulator? They did not exist.

My first time in a simulator was in the late 1960s.

Yep, well aware of all that.......:rolleyes:

I guess I should have clarified and included "in this case, Kirby is blaming it on...."

Or, what the guy below say VVVVVVVV

True, as a great example.

There were a few places where only the 50 seater made sense and could get in/out of. And I believe the marketing/revenue department exploited the crap out of those markets fare wise.

And also for EAS locations. They can run an empty plane and, with the government subsidy, still make a little money.