How about everyone, quit lecturing each other?

Right? For the most part, all of you older gentlemen are professionals. Act like it, even on an internet forum.

JetJock, am I a victim of SJS considering that Ive spent the past 4 years of my life with the military as a meteorologist? Now making a career move to fly for a living, with a wife, a house mortgage, and a car payment? Am I a victim, simply because the minimums at some airlines are lower than SKW? Am I a victim if I get picked up and hired by ASA, XJT, PSA, PDT, at 500/50?

I'd be cautious about throwing around the SJS title. I'm even not that naive to throw it around at ERAU, UND, MAPD, or DCA guys.

Don't worry - I'm not lecturing you. :) Just wanted to set the SJS issue to rest.

I'll grow out of what? I'm not the one sitting here insulting you. I just don't agree with you, perhaps you'll grow out of it. I still contend that the SkyWest pilot group, as a whole wishes not to take anyone else's flying, and I STILL contend that you sir will walk right onto one of the Comair birds that are currently flying under the ASA certificate. No one at SkyWest is a scab, and you, using that word, shows your ignorance. I spend far more time around this pilot group than you do, and I am far more familiar with the overall pilot attitude at this company. As for our recruiting, we turn away about half the people that interview with us. Every single one of them has at least 1000 hours, and many of them come with turbine time. Snot nosed and inexperienced is pretty far from the truth when compared with the average new hire at ASA or most any other rj carrier.
Second it's funny that you say now that SkyWest pilots make more money, because if I remember correctly, a couple months ago you spent many posts trying to convince me that SkyWest pilots we're dragging down the industry by undercutting everyone else. So which is it? Does JA treat us really great, and crap on you? Or are SkyWest pilots dragging the industry down with our low pay? You can't have it both ways.
Also let me correct you on an assumption you made about our pay, we only make 150% percent if we are called on junior man, with the exception of the next two months, open time that is picked up is paid at our normal rate.
As far as union busting moves, LAX for sure wasn't a union busting move. They tried to grow the ASA side, and the finances just didn't work out. If anything they were trying to throw you guys a bone. Closing the SLC base, maybe, I'd have to look closer at how much flying you were doing when they closed it and compare it to now. Honestly I don't know, so I won't comment on it. But if they DID increase the SLC flying for you after they closed, shouldn't you be happy about that? As far as opening ATL on the SkyWest side, I agree, it's sh*tty, but I think it's just salt on a wound from before, when we got the -900's. The base was inevitable after we got the -900's. I don't think it's going to be that small much longer. But I don't think you'll like that much either.
Anyway, I wish not to fight with you, I've had nothing but positive experiences with every ASA crew I've dealt with. I did my sim in Atlanta, and they were all very nice, don't hurt the reputation of your own pilot group by being a jerk. Make your points, complain about management, whatever, but to insult entire pilot groups based on the opinions of a small few, is pretty ignorant.

Any olive branch extended must be reciprocated. To that end, of course you're right about cocky pilots everywhere (I've even been called that myself) But the situation at Skywest goes well beyond that. Non union pilots are taking union pilot jobs as the owner of your company uses the tactic of shrink us, grow SW to try and reduce our quality of life and prevent the union from happening at Skywest.

You, as a member of the Skywest pilot group have very little control over that. I think we both realize that. What makes the debate so visceral, is how the dreaded slick hair touts it; bragmatic that "the threat of a union is better than a union". I know I sound like a broken record on that quote, but you can't imagine the self restraint it required when I rode next to this jackass on the crew bus in SLC. Can Skywest pilots stop JA? Maybe not, but voting in the union for the greater good would be a great first step. The problem I fear is that most pilots at SW don't want to stop him. They want fast upgrades and express lane to the Legacy, and they don't care who's back they step on, on the way up.

As I've posted in previous strings, when Skywest pilots (most that is) debate the pro's and Cons of ALPA, I never hear the moral arguement that other pilots are paying with the dues, time, effort, and risk to better the industry. THE THREAT IS NOT FREE and it is being paid by thousands other than the skywest group. Is ALPA perfect? Hell no. Far from it, but it is necessary in our industry. All pilots reap the benefits from it, so I think it is fair that we all get on the team.

I'm not lecturing you on this; as you've stated you voted yes. I hope that you are using whatever influence you have to help inform the other members of your pilot group rather than wasting your well chosen words on an old wind bag like me.

Stick

P.S.

ASA "another ****ty airlines" that's not name calling. Hell, we made that up about ourselves!

You're not insulting me? The last I checked calling someone ignorant, is an insult, just not a good one.

You can contend that I would fly a CA plane all you want. It only shows that you didn't actually read my post. Not only did I say I would, but I said "better us then SW". I'll slow down for you.... that is an admission that I would fly that plane, I'm just glad it at least went a fellow ALPA company.

"As for our recruiting, we turn away about half the people that interview with us. Every single one of them has at least 1000 hours, and many of them come with turbine time" Are you dillusional? Yes, it's true SW is holding firm on the 1,000 hour thing and I applaud your training department for that, but turning away over half? That's B.S. I had a very bright,experience, female Captain from SW who is in your training department on the jump seat the other day. She said that for the first time they couldn't fill a class and they were taking "just about anyone they could get that had the time"

if I remember correctly, a couple months ago you spent many posts trying to convince me that SkyWest pilots we're dragging down the industry by undercutting everyone else. So which is it? It's easy to make a point when you miss quote people. I never said that SW pay was dragging down the industry, infact I have said many time that SW does NOT fly the 70 for a 50 seat rate as many have, rather I point out it is a blended rate. Of course that has been improve to an over ride now, inpart because ASA's union said "hell no" to the pay cuts JA tried to forcedown our throats.
Now, what I did say is that JA used that as a tool trying to get a blended rate out of us. Pay cuts for us, vacation bidding was also effected. So, SW did lower the industry thing because JA tried to pay us like you on rate but not give us all the benefits and bonus programs that you recieve that make you so well compensated. Lose some of the emotion, stick to the facts and I think you will not only see that I'm correct, but you'll make a more convincing arguement.

They tried to grow the ASA side, and the finances just didn't work out. If anything they were trying to throw you guys a bone. Closing the SLC base, maybe, I'd have to look closer at how much flying you were doing when they closed it and compare it to now. Honestly I don't know, so I won't comment on it. But if they DID increase the SLC flying for you after they closed, shouldn't you be happy about that? You have got to lay off the Huka...LAX was JA trying to grow ASA? Wrong (but you should be getting use to that) we transfered a few aircraft (5 in total) from ATL flying, that can hardly be called growth. The SLC numbers are facts, it has started trending the other way, but for atleast 6 months it was fact. Then you are crazed enough to say that we should be happy about that? Happy about having yet another base yanked out from underneath us? Happy about having to move our families, sell home, forced to move across country to an area that few of us had any desire to live? Yep, your right, I'm being "ignorant" again.... I should be happy.

don't hurt the reputation of your own pilot group by being a jerk. That wouldn't be another example of you throwing out insults would it? It must be a warm fuzzy place inside your head.

I am not speaking for my pilot group, I'm speaking for me. If my fellow ASA pilots agree (as many of them do) that it is a major concern with the attitude of the SW group, then good. For those who don't, feel free to express your view point. I can hardly call this a debate since you fill your post with "I don't know" and misquotes, so I will gracefully bow out of this "discussion" with you. Beating my head on the wall with a mental amputee is pointless (Now see, that was a good insult!)

The only thing I have to say is.....the minimums are WHAT THEY ARE now, theres nothing you can do to change that..... Isn't it fair for people to take advantage of that and fly for a regional. Are you saying that if 10 regionals lowered the mins to below 800 when YOU HAD 800 hours, that you would have turned them down and said NO, I am going to fly my 152 for another 600 hours.......... You cannot blame people for taking advantage of the minimums right now (I am not talking about places like mesa, etc...) But there are respectable regionals with lower mins.... I am sorry that the mins were not this low when you got hired, but stop beating up on those of us who happened to catch the industry at the right time......We can't control that! Thats my 2 cents

Not everyone, I had an offer from ASA and XJT but held out for SkyWest. The fact that I live in SLC was a very strong factor in that decision however.

I agree and I'm doing what I can to educate; the moral issue doesn't get much consideration but it should.

Take care and see you on Echo.

Jet

Jesus, if this is a true:mad: story I think some things have to change......... The sense of entitlement is beyond sickening.........society as a whole has just let mannerisms and common courtesy out the window, and when it comes to jumpseating. I have seen some very polite, respectful individuals.............and then I have seen some arrogant jackasses. The few times I have jumpseated on CAL, SWA, or USAirways, I have always had my license, medical, passport, and ID out in hand and asked them if they would be so kind as to gimme a ride, and all of them have been very pleasant and respectful in return, yet on many flights that I was working, I have come across some clueless people, mostly young F/O's that went from ZERO TO HERO in 3 months... The majority of the Jumpseaters I have had experiences with have been from CAL. Most CAL guys have been very polite and respectful, as well as most RJ Ca's, however some CAL F/A's have said, "Hi I am your jumpseater" which is annoying, because your not a godamn thing until the CAPTAIN says so after you show the common courtesy of asking him/her.................Those of us that work in this industry together, need to treat each other with more respect and not have such a sense of entitlement..............

I think that the problem with jumpseaters is that they really don't understand that it is a courtesy, and they aren't familiar with the etiquette involved around that privilege. Maybe getting denied would teach zero to hero FO's that they need to use a little tact. I have never seen a captain jumpseater be anything but polite and pleasant to have in the cockpit, it seems to always be young FO's that haven't figured it out yet. As far as the demanding FO jumpseater with the special flight case he would have been watching the airplane taxi away from the gate as soon as he told the FA where he had to sit "just in case". Looks like he still has some jet rescue hero delusion left over from his private pilot days. What an a$$. Luckiest ride he ever got.

On a positive note ....I got the call from ASA this morning to come down for a July 9th and 10th interview!!! I am very excited and looking forward to it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I ve been burried in the ATP Gleim and studying the ASA interview gouges as well as reviewing systems on my current multi....we ll se what happens.