Leave your regional
 

The industry is moving slower these days for entry into 121. Many of you want to wait for the “flow” United, American, delta all created a flow. They want you to work for less than your value produces for their operations. With this point I recommend you leave your regional as soon as you can. Leave for any place even a move to a major or cargo carrier you’re not a big fan of. If these airlines see their regional model doesn’t work they’ll be forced to hand out seniority numbers mainline. Make their operations hurt. Why? Because they don’t mind letting pilots go hungry in lean times. You’re profit to them. A dollar amount with a cost for a service they provide. Your family deserves better. You deserve better. Do not wait for a flow. Do not wait around and be “loyal”. Corporate america doesn’t reward loyalty. In the past 30 years wage stagnated while record profits and ceo income exponentially increased while the true value of the median household income shrank. Now’s the time to seize that LCC or other carrier by the hand shake firmly and let regionals die. We don’t need regional jobs… we need major level jobs. If anyone says you’re not qualified or prepared for the “majors” ask them why that matters to them. Then go and prove them wrong. You’re a qualified capable pilot. Yes, you’ll be learning. But some of those captains gave up on learning years ago. Those captains want to take a nap while you do all the work. Those captains would’ve wanted the same opportunity you’re receiving now. Take the leap. Let the regional model burn. You’re only hurting your own progression and the median pilot income of those behind you when you stay.

So let me get this right, you’re telling people to leave their regional so that the mainline carriers will hand out seniority numbers? I think the reason most stay is in hopes of a seniority number at said legacy. But your advice is leave to a LCC so that their classmates will be forced to be given legacy seniority numbers, makes a lot of sense. This is a pointless ramble.

That was drunk posting. Regionals do great in lean times, my wages have been anything but stagnant, my airline has treated me really well and I enjoy it.

There’s still reasons to stay at a regional. Nearest major airline base is a 4 hour drive away for me. I have good schedules and no interest in commuting. I can’t imagine a better QOL at the majors.

As someone who left Envoy for Delta, I cannot agree more. I had the “loyalty” mindset for a while- fly the regional jets with pride for 5+ years until I got to mainline where I would be taken in with open arms to fly a 30 year career. Heck, when I got my CJO at Delta I even contemplated staying at Envoy to remain “loyal” to the American brand. Boy was I stupid for even thinking that. These airlines dont care about you. Pick the best one that fits your needs. The ones that make me laugh most are the young guys that say “well my dad worked for this company so I must remain loyal”. The company your parents worked for no longer exists (from a management/corporate standpoint) and they could give a rats behind if you decided to work there to continue the “legacy”. Ive talked to a few guys at the regionals who turned down UAL/DAL/SWA offers for that exact reason. “ I want to flow and continue the legacy.” Seniority is everything, put your pride to the side.

There aren't. The original post was a bit of a ramble, but the goal is to get out of there ASAP and either on to your last seniority list or a step closer to it. Anything associated with anything related to a regional is temporary in nature. The current pay/bonus structure is temporary, the retirement isn't near what you'll need. Whatever QOL you think you have now will be re-attainable in the not too near future when your on your final list. My reply isnt really directed back at you FlyinCat as I obviously have no idea the particulars of your situation, it's more generic in nature to someone who wants to hang out at a regional on purpose for supposed short term QOL or pay reasons. Get out ASAP. Your 65 year old self will thank you.

Your airline does not like you. You and I are just employee numbers, this is a business transaction, escape while you can. It's like a game of survival.

Crew Scheduling how can I help?
This is Joe John calling in sick.
I don't know you Joe, what's your employee ID?

If your company isn’t selling the tickets your company can disappear at the whim of the company that IS selling the tickets.

Ask me how I know…

Ignorance is bliss. You need to get out anyway you can. I even agree on escaping with the cargo route. At the very least you’re wasting seniority where you could be upgrading making major Captain pay.

What?

It's all fun and games getting weekends off, until your airline quickly folds. Then you'll have every weekend off for sure.

Well crap. Some anonymous internet keyboard told me to do something completely unsolicited. I must comply!

Funny. Only two years ago at the start of Covid, when everyone said this industry was going to stagnate for years, no one would hire anytime soon, and everyone was wondering which regional would go under next, getting out of the regionals seemed like pretty common sense.

I remember watching the ALPA breakdown of all the American Eagle carriers and how much flying each one had lost. (Hint: a lot, but some more than others)

But now everyone is happy. Everyone is well paid. QOL is better than mainline. Well the good news is, if the banks collapse we will see who bet on the right horse.

This is temporary. Think long term. 20 years from now it will not have made sense to camp out at your regional when you had the opportunity to get out.

Encyclopedia Britannica
 

"Can't imagine better QoL at a major"

Stockholm syndrome describes the psychological condition of a victim who identifies with and empathizes with their captor or abuser and their goals.

Keep your apps updated. Get hired, move to base. Simple as that. Good luck.

I have never, ever met a pilot at a legacy who regrets leaving their RJ, I have met many RJ guys who wish they pushed harder to leave earlier in the boom days.

The pre Covid plug at DL/UA probably has 4,000 pilots junior to them.

I’m guessing you haven’t looked at the major difference in retirement contributions at the major compared to a regional. Maybe you’re in your 20s and it isn’t really on your radar yet. A 16% DIRECT contribution aka no match needed from your salary vs say 4% at the regionals. Compounding returns is very important to understand. One day the stock market will actually make $ again.

You should consider shutting the __ up until you have some experience in the industry. You're a joke. Trying to get your first airline job out of one side of your mouth, and telling airline pilots what they should do out of the other.

Perhaps airline pilots who are hanging out at a regional by choice - at least those under 55-60 years of age - ought to listen to advice anywhere they can get it.

Well my advice to the pilots you mention is to not take career advice from a airline pilot wannabe. Especially a wannabe who, himself, has recently been shopping regional cadet programs.

All of this lecturing, and denigration of CAs at the majors, from someone that, as of a few months ago, had less than 500 hours.

You're talking about money, not QOL. Money might be better at majors but is QOL, really? I have a pretty good nest egg put away and my spouse has a full retirement. While better benefits would be nice, I don’t need them. I want to spend time with my parents before they’re dead. I want to be a parent before my kid leaves for college. I want to spend weekends with my spouse. I want to enjoy my life now while I’m alive and healthy and not half dead with a walker. I haven’t met anyone over 60 yet who wish they’d worked more when they were younger. If I was under 30 and single I might feel different. I don’t want to waste another 5 years climbing a ladder while life slips away.

if the advice is GOOD advice, would you reject it because you don’t like the source? That’s not very mature. If you can REFUTE the argument, do so. But don’t shoot the messenger.

Spirit has 4 days off mandated between trips per their contract. AND much better 401k contribution than any regional. Spirit will be around for a while…other regionals I’m not so sure. It’s a gamble either way.

He doesn't make an argument for why someone should leave. It's just a rant by someone who is trying to get the job that he's demanding that people resign from.

He made an assertion and gave his reasoning. Multiple people agreed with him. You answered with an ad hominem attack. Back in my high school debating days, he won easily on points.

There’s a number of 9E flows who, due to their age, would have made significantly more money and had way better QOL, had they stayed at 9E to finish their careers instead of flowing to DL. That is of course assuming 9E survives to the end of their careers.

Everyone has a unique situation, there are few true one-size-fits-all solutions.

For some of those super senior dudes, they probably enjoy a few years taking a widebody to Europe than more 4-5 legs days upstate New York. They’re still making 200/hr on the ER with the new deal, which goes a long way to offsetting whatever they’d have been paid to stay. I’d venture anybody with more than 5 years left will cash out with more by going to DL. More than a few took 320/737 capt, so that’s 300/hr. Under 5 and it’s case by case, but they’re probably having a blast anyways it doesn’t matter. Had a super senior flow dude on my JS and he was having a blast, seemed thrilled to get the chance and was a great guy to have on.

I left my regional and I am happy.

Congrats on the move! Where are you now?

Really think this needs elaboration. What's better? Why are you happier? No one really wants to spell this out except to say "money."

Depends on one’s situation….. My QOL at my ACMI bested QOL at the regionals even holding weekends off at the regionals. I am at a Major now on a WB fleet dealing with reserve rules that is know for being rolled. Once I learned the reserve game, I’ve managed to hide out and not see a airplane for a whole month and score additional days/time off to spend with my spouse and also not get rolled either….

My trips are better, I have more days off, I have more time at home before/after trips with the fleet I’m on, my time at work is nicer, there is more support in my job, I have more people helping out and am not expected to run the show like in RJ land, I fly nicer equipment.

There, and I didn’t even say money.

I get treated better. Pax treat me way better.

Everything is better.

Hotels. Pilot lounges. Free food. In flight food. Transportation. The whole experience is different. Less shoe string rawhide outfit and more like a true airline of old. At least the difference is notable.

Best is that the jets can descend with both packs and anti ice on without the apu. Crazy huh?

I’m pretty sure everyone under the age of 50 has tried / trying to leave their regional….. pointless thread

100%. I guess to flip it, I can’t think of a single thing that was better at my regional. Everything is just nicer and easier.

You'd be wrong. After the big raises last year, there are some guys younger than usual staying put or simply putting off leaving for a while. I've talked to a few of them personally. I could see it happening on a seniority list with an automatic flow to mainline. Not tons, but more than you'd think.

Legacy sounds better all things being equal...but I need some convincing that commuting at a legacy is better than living in base at a regional. Yeah, those are my only 2 choices due to personal situation.

Commuting for a legacy vs. living in base at a regional?

I mean…. What kinds of people are these “regionals” hiring these days?

Are Brains appreciated, but not required?

Logically I can understand why people should leave a regional. However, there may be certain circumstances that you’re just unaware of that is keeping them there. Like, needing to take care of a loved one, a recent death in the family and their life just completely flipped upside down in a multitude of ways that they didn’t see coming, weren’t planning for it, etc. I’m not in those types of circumstances, thankfully, but some people might be. Don’t judge someone’s choices. I couldn’t imagine trying to get through training at a major and Ive got my head wrapped around all these things and can’t focus on the training and I was better off staying put at my regional while I get my life back on track, get my ducks in a row, etc. It might seem ‘dumb’ to some of you, but I can promise you that if you were in their shoes you wouldn’t appreciate the ‘screw your reasons for staying, just leave your regional now, your wasting your time there’ crowd. Granted, some people are still at regionals because they like being the big fish in the little pond, but that’s not everyone though.