everything is negotiable, look at how ML pilots sold out for scope after they said “never again” again and again.

https://www.thestreet.com/retail/del...hese-17-cities
DL leaves these markets, some have been gone since covid. Most were regional markets, I remember Delta doing SLC-SBA, GJT, COD, DRO for years.

Of course regionals are shrinking…
 

https://i.ibb.co/VJSpkxm/EC995-DAC-9...4-B8-F2-AD.jpg

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/06/why-airlines-are-flying-bigger-planes.html
​​​​​​​


In the competition for gates at increasingly crowded hubs, the advantage is starting to go to the biggest aircraft that can fit in the gate.

Bottom line, 50 seats are mostly going away, replaced by 76 seats.

Some 76 seats will up gauge to 737/320.

Anyone who has been paying attention in this business has known that for several years.

in addition, a number of airports have been adding gates. Again, no news. Long term.

All true, but the regional forum is where people approaching ATP eligibility go to learn about their next step. Many have been out CFIing or whatever, and haven’t been paying attention since they got the sales job from Embry-Riddle, ATP, or wherever. They are fortunate in that they are hitting a high retirement period for the three legacies, but what woukd have been common consensus 3-4 years ago has changed mightily now.

So, you are saying someone wanting to get hired on by a regional is not interested in the overall industry? Yes, things will change, but horse blinders is not a way to approach their career.

I am addressing this article. It is posted in regionals. I am responding to it, where it is.

No. I’m saying precisely the opposite. Many people who started down this road when a regional was indeed the quickest way to a major are going to be looking in the regional thread and BECAUSE of those changes may want to consider other options. Or at least be knowledgeable that the conditions HAVE changed in considering those other options.

Yep, it’s there because the target audience is there. What objections do you have about that audience getting pertinent information to help them in THEIR career choices. Those who already know about the changes can ignore the posting. Those who are ignorant of those changes can likely benefit from learning about them.

You continue to endlessly debate and take counter positions to me, and many others here. I am tired of that approach. I feel sorry for your spouse, your children, and your neighbors. They either continually but heads with you or they just roll their eyes and roll over and play dead; thinking less of you. I do not have that problem with anyone else on these forums. Take this as constructive feedback.

(Incidentally, I have never blocked anyone on these forums. I have no intention of changing my policy.)

I don’t “follow” you at all except in reply to comments directly referring to my postings. But please, in the future, jus plain IGNORE my postings if you have no desire to block me as they seem to be contributing to your paranoia.

You make my point perfectly, in your response attitude. I am sorry for you, if you act this way in real life. Enough said.

As the regional world shrinks…
 

https://i.ibb.co/Fz6N8rC/5841045-C-7...E4-EE42-A2.jpg

…there are implications for pilot commuters as well. Fewer regional flying trips mean earlier commutes, fewer easily commutable trips, more time in crash-pads or hotels. And that’s true even for major airline pilots if they don’t live near a major hub. As frequency goes down, commuting gets even less efficient from the small and medium sized towns, single leg commutes now becoming two leg commutes even if service is maintained. And even harder for those who have been living in cities where service is being dropped altogether.


https://bestlifeonline.com/delta-uni...y-cities-news/

Small town commuters have been taking hits for about the last decade, not getting better anytime soon.

The simple fact is that new pilots may have to (gasp!) work for a Part 135 outfit instead of going right to a Regional. Get your 500 hours of PIC in which will put you within 500 hours of Part 121 upgrade mins, get hired by a regional and upgrade under a year. Then get snatched up by a Legacy or whoever your forever airline will be. It may take you a little longer to get to a Regional but your time to your forever airline will be much shorter than even a few years ago.

So now instead of going to a Regional, getting 1000 hours and taking the first available upgrade. Then getting 1000 TPIC before becoming competitive to move on which would take a total of 4 to 6 years from Regional hire date, you'll have to do the above process which will take 3 to 5 years.

In other-words even though the process may be more convoluted, with this hiring market you will most likely get to your final destination of choice sooner than the historical average.

Or just go direct from your 135 outfit to the right seat at a major. Easy peasy.

Yeah 500tpic and unrestricted atp is not gonna be regional bait in 2024

What do you mean by that?

As someone who’s about to do this myself, the only thing I’m worried about is that none of the time for single pilot 135 ops counts under 121.436. So, it’s turbine, it’s multi, it’s PIC, but it isn’t countable towards 121 PIC. That said, I sure wouldn’t be complaining to end up at NK or the like, so I’m hoping an unrestricted opens that door in a year or more.

FWIW - 1300 TT, zero checkride failures, a decent resume, and the only place I ever got a reply from was Air Whisky. These days, you can make more money than ZW going 135, so that’s where I’m going.

I mean that

1) you pretty much need an unrestricted atp to get hired at sells-its-own-tickets 121 operation
2) regionals are not hiring fo’s
3) someone with 750-1000 hours who flies turbine 135 will likely be able to bypass the regionals 12 months from now when they hit 1500

The regional well is just about dry with the big4 hiring a pilot an hour 24/7/365. They will be taking 1500 hours and solid experience soon.

So get 200 hours of turbine ME and put in apps everywhere. Unlike the regionals, the ULCCs NEED FOs because they lose a lot more FOs to the legacies than they do CAs. By the time they are a CA at NK they are now making north of $270k plus 15% and the golden handcuffs are starting. It becomes more and more difficult to give up what you’ve got, for sure once you are a lineholder to go back to being an FO on reserve at $100k, even if it’s a better deal in the long run. So while regionals are bleeding CAs and have a surplus of FOs, the ULCCs are bleeding FOs. So get your 135 hours now and you can soon get all the 121 hours yiu want at an LC/ULCC. And if the next black swan hits and the music stops, an LC/ULCC seniority number is better than a regional one.

The problem with this solution, from an F9 perspective, is management is getting wise to this. They are realizing that “Experienced” FOs come to get an A320 type rating and then immediately get picked up and leave.

The majority of applicants going forward are probably going to come from partner programs (ATP, Riddle, Perdue). Until the legacies start hiring right out of flight school, these guys will have to give it at least a +1 year to get some time experience. Unlike their experienced counterparts who leave very quickly.

Also^^^^^
Probably more RTP priority depending on how the program pans out.

The advice is directed AT those people trying to get their first 121 experience. But even so, putting in applications at F9, B6, NK, AS, and WN costs nothing. And if the alternative is waiting 4-6 months for a regional class date ( and one that may well slip) to become the bottom guy on reserve at a regional still not getting 121 hours very fast, it’s a viable path.

And while management may indeed “be getting wise to this” it’s not like they have a lot of options or can avoid the risk. With legacy retirements as they are, there WILL be a drain from other 121 operations, and most legacies would actually prefer to hire pilots away from their LCC/ULCC competitors than they would cannibalize their own regional feed, so however “wise” F9 management may be, they are still going to lose experienced FOs to the legacies.

Take a look at NKs recent TA. Everyone got increases, but those increases weren’t evenly distributed. They were greatest percentage wise at the year 3 and 4 FO level, because if they can retain FOs past that point they will soon be CA’s making (counting 401k DC) over $300k a year, after which the ‘golden handcuff’ effect comes into being and it becomes a lot harder to justify jumping to a $100k legacy first year FO slot.

Conversely, most regionals are doing just the opposite, freezing FO payscales after four years to create a situation where they are trying to compel regional upgrade to regional CA.

So I think the advice is still good. If you have your choice of gathering 121 SIC hours at a place flying CRJs and/or ERJs or gathering those 121 hours quicker in 737/320s you’d be a fool to chose the former.

The other issue for folks like myself is the F9s and NKs of the world aren’t yet taking folks with “decent experience” without an ATP. So financing your own ATP or even finding somewhere that has a multi for rent with an ATP guy to sign you off isn’t exactly easy. These 135s are wise to it too, no reason to get you your ATP if it means you’ll be hirable a million other places right after.

This is the exact spot I'm in.

Whoa killer. Lay off the APC a bit. I didn’t say don’t apply anywhere. I simply said experienced 121 FOs probably won’t be getting the call from certain LCCs. And our recent hiring, and statements from Mgt, agrees with that statement.

Not true. Spirit responds within 30 minutes if you apply as FO with 5000 hours.
Frontier not far behind.

Yes. You need an ATP. Any cfi with 750 hours should be gaming that out. Flying pays well enough now to fund your own certification.

Unless things have changed, no one has to sign you off either.

And you know this because you’re gainfully employed or have gotten CJOs from both of these companies?

An ATP??? You are holding off on your career advancement because a ULCC won’t pay for your ATP???

Go get one:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/..._Providers.pdf

So you are out $5k…. That’s two weeks guarantee pay for a year one ULCC FO. Less than that for year two. And by then you’ll have a line and be able to pick up stuff to make more - right up to FAA limits if you want to. And in year one, they’ll be flying you - even on reserve - more than most regionals.

So in two years you can either have 1200 hours of 737 or 320 121 SIC time or maybe 700 hours of CRJ or ERJ 121 SIC time. Which do you think will get you a shot at a legacy interview quicker? And seniority is the name of the game.

I've applied for fun. You get the call almost immediately. What you are saying is not correct.

How long does it take to hear from Frontier nowadays? :)

Wrong. Not 5000 hours. 1500 hours.