I'm back. Things I learned in training.
07-18-2007 | 09:55 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Cessna 210 Turbo
The concern with low-time airline pilots has little do with the sim. Nobody (except mesa) is too worried about whether or not a low-timer can pass training. The sim is a big video game that is designed to teach you how to do instrument approaches and engine-out procedures. Since engine failures are exceedingly rare and you can go weeks or months without doing an instrument approach (depending on geography), the sim isn't particularly relevant to real airline flying.
Conducting regional operations in busy airspace or uncontrolled airports is where that 1500 hours of situational awareness and talking on the radio comes in handy...a CFI has an instinctive feel for what those bug-smashers are going to do (and how they're going to screw up). Example: I did a go-around once due to a GA airplane on base to the parallel on a hazy day. We had him on TCAS (TA) but tower assured as that he was turning final. When I heard someone ask "uh tower, what's the localizer freq for 27R?" I realized the guy didn't see his runway and was going through his final. Sure enough, he went blazing through the airspace I had just climbed out of.
Actually in defense of low-timers, SWA has done the same thing to me...twice.
Conducting regional operations in busy airspace or uncontrolled airports is where that 1500 hours of situational awareness and talking on the radio comes in handy...a CFI has an instinctive feel for what those bug-smashers are going to do (and how they're going to screw up). Example: I did a go-around once due to a GA airplane on base to the parallel on a hazy day. We had him on TCAS (TA) but tower assured as that he was turning final. When I heard someone ask "uh tower, what's the localizer freq for 27R?" I realized the guy didn't see his runway and was going through his final. Sure enough, he went blazing through the airspace I had just climbed out of.
Actually in defense of low-timers, SWA has done the same thing to me...twice.
Indeed, there is no substitute for experience, I will always agree with that, but never forget that the worst accident in aviation history was not caused by some low time guy, but a high time guy, and a senior pilot for his airline. In fact, when KLM heard about the accident, they called for him to go check it out, without realizing that he was already at the scene!
Can you name that captain without going to Google first? Can you even tell me the name of the airport?
Don't sell all of us who fly "bug smashers" short. At least I can say that I own mine and pay about $150 / hr to fly it. I also have 4-figures in my log book and have read enough accident reports to know that mistakes can be made by anyone, including high time pilots in fancy jets, some of whom have made mistakes that I cannot fathom.
None of us are perfect and, contrary to popular belief, you do not own the skies, so deal with it.
We look out for you folks in the jets too, because after 32 years of flying I learned you folks are not perfect either, especially when you put your heads down to punch stuff into your computers.
Guess what, I don't have "TCAS", but I still get you guys on my "TIS". Know what TIS is? It's not bad either.
Seriously, what a pompous post for you to make. I have no doubt that I fly with some GA pilots who could fly circles around you in some lowly thing like a Cessna 421, while you are punching buttons and saying to the automation "what's it doing now".
Yeah, no doubt you want user fees for GA to bail out your airline again.
I had hoped that the anti-GA attitude was just amongst airline management and certain management at the FAA. How sad to see that it also extends into the airline cockpits.
However, I will assume that your opinion of GA is a sad aberration and not indicative of the majority of airline pilots.
Last edited by loubetti; 07-18-2007 at 10:04 PM.
07-19-2007 | 01:20 AM
#42
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Who spit in your oatmeal?
Man, you seem to be a bit off base. I don't think rick was bashing on GA, he was just stating his experience. If you read further you would see he has had the same thing happen with an airline as well. Looks like you just had some frustration built up and was looking for a chance to blow up. Chill, and instead of using those fingers to write a nasty post, write your Congressman.
07-24-2007 | 05:33 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Couldn't let this go.so here we go:
What was that about bug smashers and them screwing up? I take it you never flew one? What, you started in a jet?
Indeed, there is no substitute for experience, I will always agree with that, but never forget that the worst accident in aviation history was not caused by some low time guy, but a high time guy, and a senior pilot for his airline. In fact, when KLM heard about the accident, they called for him to go check it out, without realizing that he was already at the scene!
Can you name that captain without going to Google first? Can you even tell me the name of the airport?"
Can you tell me why we have a 30 NM mode C veil ? Goobs in bugsmashers!
"Don't sell all of us who fly "bug smashers" short. At least I can say that I own mine and pay about $150 / hr to fly it. I also have 4-figures in my log book and have read enough accident reports to know that mistakes can be made by anyone, including high time pilots in fancy jets, some of whom have made mistakes that I cannot fathom.
None of us are perfect and, contrary to popular belief, you do not own the skies, so deal with it."
Heeey,big spender ! I'm SO impressed.I have 5 figures in my logbooks,so what ?
"We look out for you folks in the jets too, because after 32 years of flying I learned you folks are not perfect either, especially when you put your heads down to punch stuff into your computers.
Guess what, I don't have "TCAS", but I still get you guys on my "TIS". Know what TIS is? It's not bad either."
I have my little LCD screen Zaon in my 172,not so I can watch out for jets-so I watch out for goobs in bugsmashers!
"Seriously, what a pompous post for you to make. I have no doubt that I fly with some GA pilots who could fly circles around you in some lowly thing like a Cessna 421, while you are punching buttons and saying to the automation "what's it doing now"."
Uh-huh.I'm not sure what the point of that was.....Funny thing about that-a lot of them don't make it through training here.
"Yeah, no doubt you want user fees for GA to bail out your airline again."
Now here is where we agree.
"I had hoped that the anti-GA attitude was just amongst airline management and certain management at the FAA. How sad to see that it also extends into the airline cockpits. However, I will assume that your opinion of GA is a sad aberration and not indicative of the majority of airline pilots."
Actually,we're not anti-GA-we're just anti-goob-in GA.Almost without fail,when I get a TCAS TA/RA,it's not from another airliner.Now go crow on the AOPA board about telling an airline pilot where to go.Did YOU actually call somebody a wanna-be ? Let's see in your own words what you posted on the AOPA board:
From Loubetti
"Often when I take folks flying for the first time with me I too wear the white shirt and epaulets. I even have a set of wings that I made using an old pair of Southern Airways wings, modified with the Cunard World Club (Cunard as in cruise ship line) pin located in the center."
So tell me Lou,do you strut around the FBO in your pilot costume,or do you carry it out to your plane in your "flight case" (you know,the one with the big "FLIGHT CREW" tags on it) and put it on there ?
What was that about bug smashers and them screwing up? I take it you never flew one? What, you started in a jet?
Indeed, there is no substitute for experience, I will always agree with that, but never forget that the worst accident in aviation history was not caused by some low time guy, but a high time guy, and a senior pilot for his airline. In fact, when KLM heard about the accident, they called for him to go check it out, without realizing that he was already at the scene!
Can you name that captain without going to Google first? Can you even tell me the name of the airport?"
Can you tell me why we have a 30 NM mode C veil ? Goobs in bugsmashers!
"Don't sell all of us who fly "bug smashers" short. At least I can say that I own mine and pay about $150 / hr to fly it. I also have 4-figures in my log book and have read enough accident reports to know that mistakes can be made by anyone, including high time pilots in fancy jets, some of whom have made mistakes that I cannot fathom.
None of us are perfect and, contrary to popular belief, you do not own the skies, so deal with it."
Heeey,big spender ! I'm SO impressed.I have 5 figures in my logbooks,so what ?
"We look out for you folks in the jets too, because after 32 years of flying I learned you folks are not perfect either, especially when you put your heads down to punch stuff into your computers.
Guess what, I don't have "TCAS", but I still get you guys on my "TIS". Know what TIS is? It's not bad either."
I have my little LCD screen Zaon in my 172,not so I can watch out for jets-so I watch out for goobs in bugsmashers!
"Seriously, what a pompous post for you to make. I have no doubt that I fly with some GA pilots who could fly circles around you in some lowly thing like a Cessna 421, while you are punching buttons and saying to the automation "what's it doing now".
"Uh-huh.I'm not sure what the point of that was.....Funny thing about that-a lot of them don't make it through training here.
"Yeah, no doubt you want user fees for GA to bail out your airline again."
Now here is where we agree.
"I had hoped that the anti-GA attitude was just amongst airline management and certain management at the FAA. How sad to see that it also extends into the airline cockpits.
However, I will assume that your opinion of GA is a sad aberration and not indicative of the majority of airline pilots."Actually,we're not anti-GA-we're just anti-goob-in GA.Almost without fail,when I get a TCAS TA/RA,it's not from another airliner.Now go crow on the AOPA board about telling an airline pilot where to go.Did YOU actually call somebody a wanna-be ? Let's see in your own words what you posted on the AOPA board:
From Loubetti
"Often when I take folks flying for the first time with me I too wear the white shirt and epaulets. I even have a set of wings that I made using an old pair of Southern Airways wings, modified with the Cunard World Club (Cunard as in cruise ship line) pin located in the center."
So tell me Lou,do you strut around the FBO in your pilot costume,or do you carry it out to your plane in your "flight case" (you know,the one with the big "FLIGHT CREW" tags on it) and put it on there ?
07-24-2007 | 06:44 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
What was this thread about again?
As a pilot who lives in both worlds I would say you guys should be on the same side. I have never known Rick to be as rude as that last post so please lighten up a bit.
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