Which US airlines favor applicants who show up for the interview with a beard?

Are you advocating that one seeking a 121 position not shave?

Perhaps one who is serious about a successful interview will consider shaving his ragged face.

You should probably re-evaluate this choice, if you haven't already.

Years ago, a pilot showed up in regional indoc with a beard. Every day the fleet captain would stop in and see if he'd shaved it yet... this went on until reviewing the FOM in class where it stated no beards. Said pilot got hauled into the fleet captains office at the end of indoc was told to shave or resign, because he'd be fired if not. His walking around the training center for two weeks with a beard caused such a stir that pilot recruitment got a mandate of "no beards" and from that time forward wouldn't process the application/hire anyone they met with a beard.

Not sure if the no beard mandate still exists, but you've met this company at a job fair. If the "no beards" tribal knowledge is still getting passed down from recruiter to recruiter, you're not doing yourself or your job hunt any favors.

With how competitive the Regional hiring market is right now you probably won't get hired any way, beard or no beard. So if the beard is that important to you and your current job security then I would just keep it and say no thanks to the interview.

I'm absolutely with JohnBurke on this. The professional appearance standard is alive and well in US airlines. If you want a job with a US airline, you should shave your beard for the interview.

John Burke is The People’s Hero in dealing with 121 noob.

How so? Your current employer does allow thier employess to change their personal grooming apperance to clean shavin?

Keep the beard and go to the interview.
Update us after.

1500 hours is no longer currently competitive at the reigionals either

I like that idea, grow it out like duck dynasty, show up in a suit like a boss. Instant hire!

I got a rejection email this morning from Envoy, stating that I "do not meet all minimums at this time which are governed by the FARs," and that they will not be able to move forward in the recruiting process until I meet all FAA ATP/RATP Mins.

For background, I qualify for an R-ATP with military experience (need 750 total time, 250 x-country, 100 night and 75 instrument, and I have 975, 860, 233 and 302, respectively). The only items that might be questionable are the 250 PIC, 100 x-country PIC, and 25 night PIC, of which I have none. However, according to 14 CFR § 61.159(a)(5), I should be good to go with 736 SIC, 736 x-country SIC and 196 night SIC in aircraft requiring dual operations, under the direct supervision of a PIC and while in a PIC-upgrade program.

I have an interview on the books with SkyWest, but I was wondering if anyone out there had any insight on why Envoy is telling me I don't qualify. I can understand if I'm not a competitive enough candidate, but to say I don't qualify isn't tracking with all the research I've done on this. I've asked for clarification on which minimums I don't meet, but haven't received an answer.

Thanks all!

Have no clue about mil conversions, but for R-ATPs you do need the RTP qualifying night and cross country time (which is already reduced from the full ATP requirements). There is no getting around it.

Did you log the SIC as SIC or as PIC?

SIC, since that's what I was.

Looks like the disconnect.

Legality notwithstanding, zero pilot-in-command experience may make for a hard sell.

I'm assuming your AF, is the 975 coming from primary + secondary time?

Yeah, I’m AF. And correct, primary + secondary only, no sim or other time in that number. I also did not apply any time adjustments, though if I did, that puts me well into the 1000+ range.

The Envoy recruiters aren't pilots and it's possible they made a mistake. They are more accustomed to seeing RATPs through degree programs at 1,000 hours. I do know Envoy will not interview with less than RATP/ATP requirements but other airlines like SkyWest will. They may have just seen your hours and made a hasty veto without checking military requirements.

PM Me. I'm a AF Guard guy currently at a regional and spent months making sure all my hours were kosher according to the FAA regs and I can look at your logbook for you.

Maybe becuase of the 250 PIC requirement is the issue since it your a copilot and dont have 250 aircraft commander time?

Under FAA regs we can count time "under direct supervision of an actual PIC while performing the duties of a PIC" as PIC time for us as copilots towards R-ATP mins as long as we're in a two seat or more aircraft.

I thought that was for counting it towards getting your atp or ratp. Does this also count for the regional airlines hiring requirement of 250 pic also?

yes, I am a guard pilot hired at edv last year. I used 250 hours of my primary time (2 pilot cockpit) to satisfy the 250 hour pic time (only have 56 actual pic from when I was a PPL and the solo time in the T-6.
regs are confusing but if you justify it clearly the DPE won’t question it

I’ve been watching 121noob’s posts for quite awhile and I decided I wanted to finally chime in.

If you really wanted a 121 job you would make some sacrifices. After 11 years of active duty military I decided I hated it and wanted to pursue being a professional pilot (while I was in the military I would be gone for weeks at a time and my family survived). At the time I was almost 30 years old and was married, had a kid, and another on the way and had a house (I had obligations). At that point I was also making about 75k/yr. When I got out of the military in order to be able to pursue my pilot certificates I took a job in retail making $11/hr (poverty wages as you say). Yes my wife did work until the new baby came and combined we probably made about 70k/yr (still poverty wages as you say), but when the baby came it dropped off a lot, I’ll let you do the math with my $11/hr wage. After I got my private, I got a job at the FBO with an awesome raise to $12/hr (still poverty wages). A few years later I also, like you, ended up with a jet job early on in my flying career. Despite my jet time (I was obviously overqualified for a regional), I still got a job offer flying for a regional.

So to me, it sounds like you are just making excuses. If you really wanted to job, you would make sacrifices. Everything JohnBurke has said is spot on. And before you say it, I admit, my reading comprehension may not be that great.

I had similar circumstances, though I wasn’t in the military. We did have a baby around the time I wanted to finish my ratings, and it certainly made things very difficult in terms of going at it full time and studying. I was making a measly $12/hr at my local trucking job doing local deliveries. All in all, it took me about 7 years from start to finish from private to CFI. It wasn’t easy by any means but never complained like I’ve seen some people do who had it really easy. Idk how 121noob was when he was finishing his ratings, but I’ve certainly had students who had a sense of entitlement when I was an instructor. So it wouldn’t surprise me if 121noob portrayed himself to his instructors the same way as he did on here.

It appears as if he’s learned a lesson from a lot of people on here, albeit a hard lesson, when he finally came to the realization that he cannot count the time that he logged PIC towards the time requirements for airline jobs. He’s gone silent for at least a week or 2. Or so it seems, I could be wrong. But I think he definitely ate some humble pie when he realized that the reason nobody has called him was because of his PIC flight time. He wouldn’t listen when he was told by so many that, yes, he was able to legally log the time under the sole manipulator clause, but airlines frown upon that when looking for a job with them.

I have

I'm not.


Yup you made that clear

Just blindly trusting random people on the Internet is moronic. I had to do some research on my own.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. And yes I have had calls and interviews.

Oh really? With who? Which airline? Have you been hired?

If there's one thing that's clear over the course of his mind-numbing threads, it's that the guy isn't having anything to do with humble.

I come to a forum with a bunch of experienced 121 pilots, ask for advice, get advice that I don't like, and now I'd be a moron to listen to any of it. He has an answer to everyone for everything. I'm still saying epic troll thread.

Yeah I'm not going to post personally identifiable information.

Interviews but no CJO's? Shocker.

Clearly not, and your history of mewling, whining, wailing responses on this site, making up every excuse you can, clearly illustrate that to everyone who reads your posts.

You're the poster child of excuses, and twice now I've made long posts of quoting you doing it. Are you lying about it again? Do we need to revisit this?

Did you cut your damn hair yet?

The only clarity here is your unwillingness to do what's required, your sense of entitlement, and your propensity to make excuses.

Definitely no attitude there. None. Nada. Zilch. Just a humble attitude, willing to learn, full of wonder, wide-eyed, anxious to do everything necessary to get ahead (except shave the god damn beard).

Cleary. It's served you well in your quest for 121 employment, too.

No chance of that. You've found plenty of other means to be moronic, instead, as we've seen.

Learning is demonstrated by a change in behavior. There's been no change in yours.

You're not particualrly teachable, nor are you open to anything but the sound of your own keyboard. Unfortunate, for you.