When will regionals hire again?
 

Any ideas on when regionals will hire again? I have just under 2000 hours and fly Part 135.

They never stopped hiring; merely slowed to a crawl. However, the pace has picked up a bit recently but most (if not all) either have a contract, prioritize cadets, or both.

Judging by the guess'timated back log of in-house employees, cadets, and those who have already signed a contract and waiting on a class date, you, my friend, will be very low in any stack of applications. Good luck.

Airlines hire when they 1) gain planes or 2) lose pilots. (ie less supply or more demand)

#1 is a possibility as the captain shortage abates and dormant planes see more use
#2 is hard to say as the military/ULCC pipeline may meet all major hiring needs (and reduce regional captain attrition) for awhile

The pipeline of CFI > Regional > Career Job is probably broken or at least narrowed in the near term to special CFI > indentured regional > career job

As a low-time guy (and yes, 2000 hours is back to being low time) your best avenues are probably either 1) balls to the wall, do what it takes or 2) settle into a second tier career trajectory that doesn't require immediate cash/QOL sacrifices

the only thing I'd add is that "regionals" in most cases have become acceptable careers themselves. The compensation and contracts read more like an ULCC or LCC did just a few years ago. Many would choose living 20 minutes from base at a regional over a career of commuting. Are there outliers like CommutAir that still rely on pilots not being willing to sign a training contract, yep. But the better regionals are actually nothing like they were in the 2000's or 20 teens.

Most of these better regionals aren't even regional anymore. They operate coast to coast, Canada, Caribbean, Mexico and even South America. Many are more of a national or even technically, an ACMI with long term CPA's......which is probably most accurate. We just separate the ACMI from "regionals" by the plane size and type of flying.

There are many 737/767/777 operators that fly passenger sub service for other airlines, just usually short term contracts.... but it's the same general idea.

I'm not plugged into the sitch at every regional but I know PSA and Piedmont are hiring for exactly the reason you said. They finally have enough captains so airplanes that have been parked are coming back online.

The crappy ACMIs are probably still hiring so there will be a little movement as regional pilots get tired of waiting for flows and seek variety.

The Big 3 all claim hiring at least 1,000 each next year so that will help a bit but you are correct, military, Spirit, Frontier, ACMI and flows will be more than enough to fill those slots.

TPIC, degrees, check airman experience, sim instructor, chief pilot are all factors again. Some highly qualified regional pilots will still get hired outside of flow arrangements. We're also nowhere near the 'lost decade' level of stagnation.

Yeah that's what I'm trying to figure out how long before that backlog clears.

Typically, regionals hire based on demand and seasonal trends, so it might be worth keeping an eye on their hiring patterns often, they ramp up in the spring and fall. Networking with current pilots or checking in on company websites can also give you some insights. Best of luck!

Throw a dart. Not sure what that knowledge would change. Make yourself as competitive as possible at your current employer, get a resume review, and update often. At some point, start interview prep to be prepared when the call does come.

So you think I should sign a contract at SkyWest or Republic?

What's you hour level? 1500? A 2 year contract not fully terrible. A five year contract? Probably terrible.

I concur with this. 2 years is enough to make you more competitive. Hopefully you can get some PIC time.

Are PSA and Piedmont hiring street FOs?

Yes, both are.

they are hiring slowly but now they want experienced applicants outside of the cadets ect. turbine, Cargo, PIC, Multi, all of the above instead of a 1500 cfi who flew patterns around 1 airport teaching someone that knew even less.

What if I still need to get a 4 year degree? Still bad idea to sign 5 year contract if no other offers?

I think the degree is back as a competitive requirement for now (unless you have guaranteed flow). Legacy hiring will ramp again mid/late decade but it probably won't be as crazy as the last few years, so the degree will likely still be necessary for most folks.

Given that, the five year contract seems less risky to me.

All true except for one thing...

Fee For departure (FFD). They all rely on mostly short term contracts with various legacies for their existence. Look back to 2020 and see what happens when regionals lose their contracts, or what happens if the owner just decides he's done with the company.

Also the current relatively high pay can and likely will be knocked back over time, simply by shuffling flying around some to put regional unions on the back foot, and letting inflation take it's toll.

I'm still sticking with the pearl of wisdon acquired by many over the years: It's probably going to be a better career if the logo on your plane matches the logo on your paycheck.

The range of the flying isn't the issue, unless you really want 30 hour layovers at CDG. It's the contractual nature, which of course also applies to ACMI's.

With contracts, some manager way up the chain at another company can just cut you loose with 30 days notice (often in late Dec). They will then go home, knock back some $400 scotch and sleep like a baby.

For a manager at a major to do that, they have to put their own job on the line in BK court. So basically they're largely stuck with you. For a routine downturn, you don't even take a paycut if you're even a little bit senior. If you do get furloughed, you know you'll be back soon enough.

With the traditional competitve minimums returning let's look at an example.

You are new to jets no degree and 1500 hours and get a Regional job.

Get hired. Spend 4-6 months in training before logging your first hour. Fly 60 hours of block per month as an FO average. 17 months on the line to get upgrade. 4 months in upgrade training. Now fly 65 hours per months as a CA. 16 months to get first 1000 TPIC. Now you are on the radar for a legacy but not fully competitive yet. Apply, finish degree, hit shows, get interview, wait for class date.

5 years could also be not too long...But predicting airline hiring that far out is a Fool's game.

Yes, everyone will nitpick this timeline. This is what time accumulation at Piedmont is like if you don't trade all your days off for work away.

Good luck.

They will never hire and all regionals will be abolished into regional hell where they belong . The regionals have been a scam since 79' .

If it is a choice between starting a Part 121 job or staying a CFI with no other prospects it is a bad idea not to take the contract college degree or not.

Not sure if that's meant to be a rhetorical question or not. I'll assume it's not.

Nobody ever really knows the "Five years on, what will have been a smart choice today?" They for sure had NO CLUE in October 2019 about October 2024.

Historically, most major hiring of civilians has been people with >1000hrs TPIC. A five year contract today doesn't seem like an awful option. Evaluate it against your other options, to include leaving aviation. It may well be your best choice. It seems likely that such a contract is going to be the only way to a regional job this year.

Take the 6 figure job, don't be an idiot. Or keep earning $20 an hour as a CFI "hoping" things get better. Newsflash, you ain't getting to a Legacy sooner than 5 years going that route either.

Depends.

Are you willing to shave, yet?

Tangentially related, but historically what have those numbers been for prior military pilots? 1,000 hours PIC is a ton outside the single-piloted communities. For sure nobody except our squadron commander has that much.

I'm over a year from separating, but just reading the tea leaves I'm for sure leaving with <1,500 total but with R-ATP mins and around 300 TPIC.

I'm just below 2000 hours half of which is turbine SIC.

Do you have apps in for either/both?

Not really competative. What else you got on your resume?

Always have been not sure why you think otherwise

Hmmm. Why would one ever think otherwise?

Perhaps because you made it such an issue. That was you, wasn't it? Hard to recall...

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/3800480-post25.html

Are you sure you can handle only 12-13 days off per month with 4 day trips? Thats half the month you are away.

Yes I do and it's crickets. I update them at least once a month. Same with Envoy and EDV.

A degree and life experience since I'm a bit older, career changer.

I'm not sure that "life experience" is going to help you out much on a cold,dark, rainy night with an approach down to minimums.

FWIW, it seems that most regionals don't like second career types. Suposedly the reason behind that is a higher risk of failing out in training, satistically speaking; so I have been told. I have not researched the topic. So that could be one thing to look at as you reflect on the sound of crickets. Figuing out a way to get your ATP and a full type rating (as you have mentioned in the past) could help prove to recruiters you can successfully pass a training event.

I've followed OP's posts and it would seem they've probably got cold, dark, rainy nights approaching down to minimums in a 135 carrier. 3 years ago 2000 hours with 135 experience would have had multiple interviews and CJOs at the regionals. We're past that radar blip. If OP has apps in and keeps them updated, aside from getting face time at events I'm not sure what else can be done (other than shave the beard.. :D )

I have plenty of insrtument time and approaches to mins in turbine aircraft. Both turboprops and jets.

You don’t listen very well…do you? Career changers usually don’t fare so well in 121 training as much as the ‘younger’ crowd does. At my regional career changers do wash out. I wouldn’t say it’s very common, but it happens more with that type of individual. You can avoid being one of those people who washes out, definitely. How can you avoid washing out? Well, since you have ‘life experience,’ you should know what that would require of you. You’re a big boy. You need to figure it out. Like others have said on here before, and like I have told you as well, you will need to change your attitude on how you approach an airline job. You aren’t owed anything because you have ‘life experience’ or have ‘lots of time shooting approaches to minimums in the soup in turbine aircraft.’ While those things CAN help you, attitude is everything. It starts with attitude first. You can be the most skilled dude in the world at flying an approach but if lots of people are talking about you in the company and how much of a jack wagon you are to be around, and you happen to be on a lot of other pilots’ bid avoid lists, your flying skills mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. You might as well just go fly single pilot airplanes.

You’ve got tons of time shooting approaches in the weather down to minimums, in turbine aircraft, huh? Cool. So did I before I came to my regional. But it was still a lot of info to digest since it was my first airline job. I had to mentally adjust to my company’s way of doing things and it’s not easy, it’s even harder for career changers to process all the info that a 121 firehose program will throw at you. I came to find that even though I could hand fly an ILS pretty good in my previous aircraft, I had to learn a lot of additional things on how my regional wants me to shoot said ILS approach, in THEIR aircraft. That’s just the tip of the iceberg on adapting to your first 121 job. Same thing with the military guys, corporate/charter guys, and even the light airplane CFI’s that were just ‘beating around the pattern.’ The real question is are you prepared for the rigors of a 121 training program? There’s a ton of standardization and standardized procedures you will need to know and basically memorize, and the company will expect you to do it ‘their way.’ You won’t get a pass if you try to do things ‘your way’ and how you do them in the corporate/charter world. Many corporate/charter guys have a harder time adapting to this stuff than the CFI types. Not always the case, but we see it a lot though.

Whether the original poster can pass training or not is irrelevant, unless he or she gets an interview and a job invitation. What we've seen thus far is a litany of excuses why the original poster cannot accept this job or that, shave and reveal his search, and a host of other arguments against opportunity. When posters have offered sound counsel, they've been met with vitriol and anger, name-calling and insults, and attitude at every step of the way. The original poster has expounded on his excess qualification, and clearly thinks much more of his qualifications than any recruiter. He doesn't seem to understand that he's minimally qualified at best, and this equates to entitlement, arrogance, and ignorance; attitude. Not a good one, and it's not a good look. Most posters who have responded to the original poster along the way have commented on this, often rebuffed by the original poster. This further confirms what everyone here can see; attitude that is clearly determining altitude.

The same message rings true: fail to listen at your own peril, original poster. Or, listen and learn. Your choice.

Based on your consistent responses, you've already made your choice. That's unfortunate, for the original poster. Your responses come across at best as bizarre. The best you can hope for, if you really want an airline position, is to be as invisible as possible. Your goal should be for the chief pilot to never know your name. You'll stand out best by not standing out, and everything you've posted to date has been a sore thumb. Don't stick out. Don't be the weirdest guy in the room. You've received responses from a wide range of experience, and frankly, quite a lot of it. You've blown it off, and that, at your peril.

Something airlines look for, when evaluating a prospect, is your trainability. Your ability to listen and learn. Because you never bothered with your CFI, you may not know that learning is defined by a change in behavior. You need to have the ability to listen to what you're being told, and adjust: show that you can be taught, that you can learn. Thus far, no evidence of this exists. You have a couple of type ratings. Wonderful. You flew a few approaches. Dandy. That doesn't mean much. It's not just about passing a checkride in type. It's about functioning as a crewmember with a thousand others who behave exactly the same, respond exactly the same, and know what to expect of each other all the time. Ever hear the term, "cooperate and graduate?"

When responders in an entire thread explain to you what the industry standard is for logging time, and you insist on padding your logbook and demand proof of what's being given you, that's copping an attitude, and it's a failure to listen or learn. When you respond to those posters with anger and insults, it's copping an attitude and it's antisocial. You really need to listen, and you really need to learn, which will be seen by a change from the behavior you've consistently displayed here. If you can't do that, and if you can't stop making excuses at every turn, then you are a self-fulfilling prophecy, and you prospects are doomed.

I know many are back-logged; not sure what (if any) the average response time is on apps atm. This has been a long thread with a lot of info, so I may have missed it, but have you done an app review? Assuming you've had apps in for a fair amount of time, I find it odd that you would've heard something from someone - even if only a tbnt.

I don't always agree with the manner in which you speak but you certainly might be on to something here for the OP. I've followed along since the OP's first question and rabbit hole threads.

If you (OP) cannot get the upgrade at your current employer and/or your ATP, broadening you resumé with the addition of a CFI cert might do the trick. (As I believe you have mentioned in the past you did not go that route). Not sure if you saw my previous post about how regionals feel about second career types, you will likely have to go above and beyond what a 21 year old needs to do in order to show you can train, learn, teach, and ultimately pass, a structured pt 121 program.