Pinnacle or Mesaba
 

Mesaba called me in for an interview but I am currently working at Pinnacle. Would it be worth jumping ship at this point. I have been here for 4 months and not sure if its a place I want to be for a long time. Long time for me is 3 years. I like both because I live in Minnesota. By reading the message boards it seems they have a better contract. I just don't know if its worth going through initial training all over. Whats your guys/gals take on this.

Its the regionals man. It's the some BS everywhere.

I say jump ship. Make pinnacle hurt even more for pilots.

Just remember: A pilot left FedEx for United in 2001...I bet he still regrets that decision.

Seniority is everything.

Do NOT move from a regional to a regional!!!! You live in base, if you work for one Red tail, you work for them all. There is one consistent thing about pinnacle and that is you move fast. It sounds like you live in base as well so just suck it up, you made your choice to come to pinnacle in the first place so just stay with it. Think about it, if you move to Mesaba, thats 3 months you set yourself back, then you might get the saab, which would require you to learn a totally different airplane and even if you get the CRJ, you have to upgrade into the saab if you want it fast. This is nothing against mesaba at all, I am just saying you are in a better place than you think right now, and if you go to mesaba, you are still going to get extended and called for junior man

I was thinking about my future goals and I relize by jumping ship I will only prolong them. Like you said things do move fast here. Scheduling really made me mad this last week and I when I got the call from Mesaba I almost said ***** Pinnacle. I really do like the guys Im flying with though. It would be stupid of me if I left now. Maybe things will be better this month.

You will probably say **** Pinnacle a couple more times while you are here, but in 3 years (providing the aviation industry has no more setbacks) you can say **** pinnacle for good. Living in base is key though, as an FO you will see your days off move up really quickly especially next summer, and they will fly you 90 plus hours a month, which will get you your time quicker. Hang in there and fly safe.

Don't think of it as 4 months of FO pay down the drain. Think of it as 4 months of Captains pay down the drain.

Good points guys. Love this forum! Thanks for your wisdom!!

and when you go to mesaba you would be saying **** mesaba too. its all the same man. mesaba doesn't have a brighter future than us, and we don't have a brighter future then them. nwa owns all of pinnacles planes and i believe they own all of mesabas planes. mesaba cant hire enough, pinnacle cant hire enough. dont let scheduling get to you. once you learn the system and get off reserve its not that bad.

Great info....I'm from Orlando but my second home is Memphis TN, (Dad and Girlfriend lives there)...I've heard good things about both companies and will apply there and others once done with school in december....question.....how strict are both companies when it come to minimums? Also.. both companies pros and cons Currently im at like 265tt and 25me and working on CFI plus taking a multi time building course this fall..(approx 17 hours)

mesaba and pinnacle have virtually no minimums... i mean pinnacle has 1000/100 posted on the site but most people get hired around 600-700. with that low of a time it might be hard if you don't come from one of the company universities.

Mesaba's mins are 600/50. If you are starting from the get-go, I'd say go with Mesaba, but Im admittedly biased because I work for them and want more people on the senority list beneath me!

Yeah i see...:cool:....well I am definitely going to build some more hours before I apply. Hopefully i'll have a lot more when its time to graduate in december....I dont want to apply if im not ready.......

Your new CRJs look nice btw. Im jealous

They are pretty nice birds, I must say. But Im keeping everything in perspective. Im no hot-shot just because I got the -900, but I am pleased with it. Mesaba is a good comapny and we are growing so, my timing is what really makes me happy. Who do you fly for?

If it was one of the decent regionals, you were commuting and the move was to be in base, I could see it. This move would be from one lousy company to another in the same city. It would be worthless move!

Please educate yourself. I'm glad to see pilots have such low standards these days.

Im plenty educated....I've been reading about this industry for a long time. Relatively speaking, I find Mesaba to be a good company, I didn't say they were the best. Most regional airlines are a long way from being great, and so are most legacies for that matter. This is my first 121 job, so I have nothing to compare XJ to except flight instructing. So far, I've had good experiences and all things considered, including some other airlines, I think its a good choice for me at this time. But for the record, I realize I may eat those words down the road and that it won't be rosy everyday.

Well hey, if you want more people underneath you. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if in November when I have 850/70 you walked my application into Mesaba:D!!

Honestly, you don't even need internal recs at this time. Whenever you're ready, send in your resume. They will call you. Go to the interview and knock em dead. Its very relaxed, and the sim is...welll....hardly a sim!:D

Tinpusher007, Two last questions if you will be so kind as to answer them. Does a single, CFI from Washington State, with 850/70 TT have much a chance getting hired in October, being that I am buying the 70 hours in a Beech Travel Scare in Texas. Finally, what are the main things to study to look damn professional...and well actually be semi-competent to the interviewers at Mesaba. Thanks for any response, even the possible "F U newbie."

You obviously don't work for Mesaba. I'm only in training and I hear from all the other initial training students from other regionals (especially Pinnacle) that Mesaba is downright 'classy'. So far I have experienced zero BS, which is way less than my acquaintances at other companies in my position.

You want to stay at Pinch a nickle after only a few months invested? Dude, get out. Research the stockholm syndrome, where people who are held captive eventually start to side with their captor, welcome to 9E.

Is this a place you even want to have seniority at, considering if all hiring stopped for the next 24 months? Do you think experiencing another training event may make you better? Do you think another SIC Type may be beneficial on your resume? Could you use a sign-on bonus for 6 weeks of easy initial training you've already been through?

NWA owns and puppeteers both of these STD like companies and they both suck. However, ask yourself which STD would be better or worse.

Dane,

As long as you aren't a complete ass in the interview you should be fine. I was hired with 1800/50 and know many who were hired with less than that. In the interview they are looking for people who will fit in. Everyone is very nice, laid back and very reasonable so as long as you aren't some cocky, uptight prick you will be hired. They know they can train you to fly the Saab (or the CRJ if you are unlucky :D)

Study the AIM, know all your instrument procedures and rules and go over your interviewing skills--the scenario questions about how you have dealt with problems in the past both in the air and on the ground.

Dane...wouldn't dream of flipping you the cyber bird. WIFlyer is pretty much on the money. The Mesaba interview isn't one that you really need to stress over. However that is not to say that you shouldn't take it seriously. They want and more importantly need to hire you, but guys have been washed out. Be yourself....be humble...convey to them that you will be tolerable on a four day trip and that you are open-minded, willing to learn and serve the customer. Study up on the AIM and sharpen your basic instrument skills for the "sim ride" and you will do just fine. This is the kind of interview that only you can f*&k up. When they call you for your class date, come to MSP fresh and ready to learn and I promise you will do fine, its really not that difficult. Good luck and PM me if I can be of any more assistance.

WIFlyer,

Thanks for your help!! It is immensely appreciated. I will endeavor to not be a cocky, uptight prick and will study the material as suggested. Hopefully, I will see you there in due time. I got the first round and if need be, I will do the my duty as the wing man. "Cause even big girls need some lovin sometimes!":D

Tinpusher007,

Thank you kindly for your words of wisdom. I will stress no longer, but I will prepare vigorously. Now I will leave this find thread alone. Sorry, I am new and don't quite know how to extract info from the site yet, so I jumped on the first thread that looked close to my goal.:confused: Just glad to hear I have a good chance at Mesaba because they have been my first choice since info was posted on them at the university I attended. Fishing in the Great Lakes on my days off sounds FANTASTIC!:cool: God Speed and good luck to all!!!

Looking ahead to september and october, looks like you mesaba guys are taking half of our river visuals into DCA away, out of MSN and DSM direct to DCA, looks like we still keep ahold of the IND DCA flight for now anyways. This is expected, but that is a fun approach to fly. I am sure you guys and compass will slowly take over more of the high market cities going forward.
I see compass is starting on august 21 with OMA, DFW, and BNA

to be fair i meet a guy at the cec who left mesaba after 5 years because he was tired of being an fo. he started out on the 85, got kicked to the saab, and has been stuck there ever since. now he is a captain here getting his pic and making better money than he ever did at mesaba, all so he can move on. he has been here for 6 months now.

Right, but that was a very different time for the company. They were being greatly downsized by big Red, and now the opposite is happening, we are now growing faster than just about anyone else. So its all about timing and right now is probably the best time to get on with Mesaba. We all know that can change, but for right now things look very promising.

this was just 6 months ago, so not really a different time. the only problem with mesaba will be the upgrade time. i see it being more than 2 years, maybe 3. All the guys, like the one that came to pinnacle, that hung in there have 5 years plus at the company are waiting to upgrade. mesaba is only getting 36 new planes. that means there are plenty of fo's already at mesaba waiting to upgrade, probably enough to last at least a couple of years. the only time i see upgrade times dropping at mesaba is once all the planes are on property, and the back log of fo's waiting to upgrade finally do, then all the new hires will get their chance.

6 months ago Mesaba had only 49 saabs, and no announcement regarding the 900's. So yes it was actually a different time. Only 36 more planes? That is almost doubling our fleet. And I think you forgot to mention the 15 Crj's that we are taking from you guys. The newest new hire has a seniority number around 550 I believe (havent looked in a while). Within in 2 years there will be 100 aircraft on property, 5 capts, 5 fo's, per aircraft, meaning up grade time with that formula would be right around 2 years. That is not taking in to account attrition. I would say however that a new hire in the 750-800 range (what the currently are) will not see a 2 year upgrade. And unlike 9E a lot of us like it here and are planning on hanging around well past the 1000 PIC. By the way your friend you talked about is basically a street captain, so using him as an example to a new hire is pointless and has no valid comparison.

hold on there buckaroo, never said he was my friend, i just meet him while he was going through training. and yes i know it is doubling your fleet, but that means nothing when you are calling guys back from furlough, and have fo's that have been with the company for 5 years or more. and i am not sure you guys will be getting those 15 crj's. One of our dispatchers rode in our jumpseat about a month ago and said non of the planes are even scheduled to be taken out of service, and that all our flying, as given to us by nwa, till the end of the year is based on the planes we have now with no fleet reduction. i honestly don't think those planes are going to go off property. since nwa mainline bought you guys they have no reason to now, they got the best deal in the world with us flying them. also do you really think nwa will staff the planes 5 to 1??? are you crazy man,, they aren't even close to doing that with their own planes. they are short on crews so staffing 5 to 1 is not going to happen. so like i said there are fo's at mesaba that have been there for 5 years, waiting for a chance to upgrade. Even your generous estimate is 2 years, i personally think it will be much longer. and you are right. mesaba has better work rules, even after the concessionary contract you guys accepted. not arguing that. i guess i have different plans than you. i want in, up, and out. thats all. every week we lose about 10 captains to the majors, our message board is full of goodbyes, and hopefully like them i will only be here 3 years max and be on my way. I think the guy that left mesaba to come here was making a smart move. he wanted to get the pic, and even after being there 5 years he knew it wasn't coming fast. and he knew about the 900's obviously since that was announced a long time ago. he, like me, wasn't ready to make the red tail regionals his home.

9E's new Bases: SLC and LAX

Yea, wasn't it 11 to LAX and 5 to SLC? Who knows if that is what will really happen. It would be nice to be on the west coast though, hopefully i'll be able to hold LAX in a year or so with a decent line.

Does any one know when bases are assigned at Pinnacle? I had originally heard during training, but have since heard a rumor saying that you aren't guaranteed a base until after OE. Thanks.

Just another rumor. I don't see anything on our message board about it yet.

look closer

1) Yes, Mesaba does staff roughly 10:1 CAs + FOs (sure, maybe it's a little bit less).
2) The 900 announcement came after NWA bought us, and the 200 announcement came after that, so your argument that NWA would change their minds against giving us the 200's after they bought us doesn't make any sense.
3) We are more than doubling our fleet now. There were about 520 guys on the list when we bottomed out at 49 Saabs. Then about 70 came back from furlough. Of these numbers, a small, but fair amount don't fly, so don't count towards the 10:1 (mgt, mil, LOA, LTD, Sim guys, and others). Some won't ever upgrade cause they don't need to or care to and like being senior FO's. Some will continue to leave to bigger things. The outlook for upgrades is still very good here.
4) Sure, this is the airline biz, anything could happen, but it would not make any sense for NWA to mess with us now, because they want to build value. They do not own PCL, and have already fleeced that cuddly little lamb. Heck, PCL's flying for Delta now, and that ain't gonna buy any love from the fiends at NWA HQ. Now, in 5-ish years, when it's time for a new XJ contract, then all bets are off.

1. ok, 10:1,, then that is almost triple EVERY regional out there.

2. incorrect. the 200 announcement was made when we got our contract with nwa, as a ploy for the pilots to sign a new agreement. this was said last december. they probably had full intentions of doing it when they said it, but not now.

3. like i said i think it is longer, but time will tell.

4. NWA isn't going to mess with you guys anymore. never said that. infact i have said the opposite. they will build you up, make you look good and then sell you to the highest bidder, i.e. exactly what they did to pinnacle.