Don't make laterals!
 

Some recent posts talk about working for one regional only to get enough experience to work for another regional. My advice? Don't make lateral moves.

Keep moving up to bigger, faster aircraft. There is no such thing as a good regional. OK, Horizon may be an exception. :D Seriously though, if your goal is great pay, days off and a pension, you have to keep moving toward the airline with the biggest/most aircraft. That may look wrong in todays market (no airline is great at the moment, including SW) but if the pilot shortage continues and gets worse, the majors are going to be the place to be.

Lateral moves look bad and don't help your career (with a few exceptions). Build PIC time and move upwards.

I second that.

Carreer goals are not the reason most people make lateral moves.

Met an FO who went from Mesa to Skywest after 4 months. He's now at UAL.
I would say that he moved upwards and not laterally.
Your career is not doomed if you move from Mesa to Skywest. Why would the majors care? They know you're coming to them and are there to stay. It would be unwise to make a lateral move in the majors, but the Regionals?? Common.

Mesa to Skywest is an upward move in my opinion. :D

That only adds to the reasons why it makes no sense.

Why sabotage your career for what really are minor differences in the short term?

Ending your commute so you are home more with wife and kids. I would never call that a minor difference.

It will not sabotage your career unless you were fired. It may delay it if upgrade takes longer, but that's a decision only you can make.

Someone had mentioned that it could actually be *good* to make lateral moves within the regionals??? The reasoning was this...

By getting hired at a smaller regional with possible bad QOL and pay, only to stay long enough to get the time and experience to go on to a "better" regional (Skywest/Horizon/etc) it would show the smaller regional that they need to offer better pay and benefits to retain their pilots. When they see that their new hires often bail before the end of year one, it might send a message that they need to step it up and offer a better contract *which could send a ripple effect thru the industry and benefit everyone*

I might not have covered all the points, but I read this last night while at work at 3am. I can see the good and bad points about this. In the end, you have to do whats right for you. Its all just a big game of leapfrog, right? ;)

I suppose that might work when they don't have other pilots knocking at the door, but I think there's still too many replacements...

And, yes, I concede that getting closer to your family is a legitimate reason to move... I hadn't thought about that as I'm not married. But, what is that pilot going to do with his/her family when hired by a major with no base close to home?

I agree 100%. I have yet to meet an regional pilot who's career has been jeopardized or doomed because of a lateral move. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

I disagree completely. First and foremost you must make the decision thats right for YOU. Not all regionals are so terrible (although I will admit most are), and if moving to a better one benefits you, that do it and don't look back. I made a "lateral" move from Trans States to Expressjet about 6 months back, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I don't regret it one bit, and I have to seriously doubt if any one in the HR dept. at a major would care. I think anybody in their right mind would have done the same thing. Consider a few of the factors in my own personal case:

2nd year FO pay at XJT = 4th year FO pay at TSA
2 leg commute at TSA vs. NO commute at XJT
Great contract and work rules at XJT vs. some of the worst in the industry at TSA.
Horrible pilot-hating mgmt at TSA vs. decent mgmt at XJT

Why suffer at a lousy company? I'd strongly encourage any one to do the same thing. Also, consider one other factor: Just because you get the flight time, and specifically the coveted 1000PIC doesn't mean that you're garanteed to get that job at UPS. In other words, you might be at a regional longer than you think. I'd much rather be stuck at XJT.

Alright, alright! I agree that Mesa to almost anywhere is a move up. My views may be out of date. In my day, (God that make me feel old) the regionals were strickley turbo props. I'm talking Metros, Bandits, Saab 340, EMB-120s etc. CRJ and ERJ were barely on the drawing board. Todays regionals are a different animal. Still, I would think that a major or large jet operator is the goal for most prospective airline pilots. If that's you, I believe moving from RJ operator to RJ operator just shows a lack of continuity and commitment or, worse yet, terminations.

If you make such a move you need valid reasons to explain to the next interviewer. Valid reasons?

* Other company went out of business
* Spouse transfered across country and you wanted to move there anyway.
* Other company shrinking, losing larger aircraft, upgrade time too long.
* The new company has bigger equipment and is more career oriented.

I've served on interview boards. It's no secret that most pilots are just building time. If I saw a guy coming from a comparable company I would wonder why. If I didn't buy their reasons, I would move on to the next candidate. A shortage of candidates, however, changes things.

You are right, you should only look at moving up in your career once you get the required experience as fast as you can. Speaking or which, maybe you should think of moving up in yours, have you applied to FedEx, UPS, or SW?

And yes, I read your post, but I came from a company where I HAD to make a lateral move due to the company going out of business. I had no PIC time and had no other alternative. With that in mind, not EVERYBODY sees this job/career as a race or a sprint to the finish line. There are way to many outside and unknown factors for you to criticize why somebody would make a lateral move in the regionals.

I understand where you're coming from. Back in the turboprop days, a lateral between very similar generic commuters would not make any sense in most cases. For that reason a lateral move was rightly viewed with suspicion...ie the guy was about to get canned and was allowed to resign instead. Also keep in mind that was before PRIA, so any career anomoly was going to raise flags.

I suspect that nearly half the pilots at XJet, AWAC, Horizon, CHQ/REP came from other airlines. I know that to be the case with SKW.

Some of us aren't interested in majors that are not close to home. For some people work and personal QOL trumps all other considerations. Everyone has to make their own choices based on their own criteria.

A little sensitive are we dojetdriver? I'm OK where I am. Thank you. And, I wasn't criticizing. I'm advising the next generation. Sorry if you were offended.

I have always tried to have the attitude of moving up in equip and pay. I went from commutair 1900 to Eagle ERJ145 and where I go next I don't know. I do know two things. I hate commuting and I'm soo sick+tired of making no money. Though I will admit Eagle is much better for money, I feel like I am raking in the cash. I am clearing nearly $1000 more a month than I did at commutair. Really though it still not the greatest salary out there. Could be a lot better. I hoping to step it up to corporate or legacy. Not sure. I am trying to get as much time in on my first year at Eagle and make the move as an FO. I really do not want to get used to capt pay and then take big hit in pay. Its not easy, I limit myself because I don't want to move but, I am willing to deal with it. It leaves me either AA or USair. Both not really the two most desirable companies. AA is really backlogged with flowbacks and contracts. USair first year pay is horrible, 25$ c'mon. Though the E190 seems to be $41, not sure why, I can't seem to get an answer to that. So Oh well, theres my two two cents.....

If you're in your first year at AE then you need not worry about upgrading soon, best case you're still looking at 3-5 years.

Also, don't forget about the estimated 1500 furloughed pilots at US (I’m sure it’s changed and APC is behind on updating US’s page). As far as the pay is concerned, it will only be $25 until they agree upon a merger and you won't get hired before then with all those pilots waiting for calls. I'm sure most of the furloughed pilots have moved on to UPS or FedEx. Maybe they'll get 10% to return, maybe.

One of the original threads addressing potential lateral moves involved a low time pilot going to a low pay "bad" regional in order to build the time necessary to go to a higher paying "better" regional. I was one that supported a lateral career move, but mentioned that it is a personal choice.

I maintain my position that lateral career moves, as long as they meet your needs can be good moves. Moving just to move is one thing, but at the end of the day you need to be happy about who you work for and how your quality of life is progressing.

Personally, I'm looking at taking a 60-75% (you read that right) paycut by going to the airlines in order to be home with my family more, fly more, and have control over my life and future. But I know that is a small, temporary sacrafice to be happier when I leave for work in the morning.

What one person does may look crazy to some one on the outside, when infact it is a well thought out, purposful decision.

apparently you never worked at COLGAN..................................

hehe... I think we all knew that was coming

I agree with Clue. Making a lateral move between regionals isn't necessarily "a lateral move"; everyone here would agree that going from Mesa, TSA or Pinnacle to Skywest, ExpressJet or Horizon is a step up, not a strafe to the same thing. The QOL, pay and general treatment of employees is far better than the other three.

Has anyone tried suing Pinnacle for false advertisement yet? The name Pinnacle implies the best, but apparently it ain't so.

Mesa to Xjet= me happy...

I heard a story once about some CA suing the company and getting a settlement on the basis he would leave and keep his mouth shut. It came from a 9E FO but is probably an urban legend...

I don't understand going to another regional to start with. Do your homework then pick one you want to stay with then stay there. Why go to one you know you are going to hate? Just be a cfi or fly freight till you get what you want. Seniority is everything.

There were a couple TSA guys that were interviewed at RAH not very long ago. The chief pilot for CHQ came down on them pretty hard about abandoning their company. Said it showed something about their character and made them a higher liability to hire. I took a few new hires I saw at the hotel for XJT to lunch since I had a vehicle two days ago. He was one of them and was a nice and intelligent guy. They simply didn't like the fact that he hadn't shown loyalty.

Depending on how the person hiring you feels it could hurt.

I'm new at this... I'm single, coming from a CFI job and am in no rush... I still don't understand what the big deal is... many companies have 1-2 year upgrades right now... so figure 3 years and hop on to a major. I'd figure you want to be in a position to upgrade as fast as possible and show consistent work ethic. I can understand if there's other factors like money, bases/commuting, family, etc that come into play... is that it? Am I in a position here that makes putting up with stuff easier?

Very much so. The first years are rough and being single makes the difference night and day. You need to decide where you want to be in a certain amount of time. I figured if I work hard I can move up the ladder and afford the type of life I want for myself and significant other. I was very close to getting engaged with someone. We had been living together for awhile. Then one day she told me she didn't want me to go fishing. That she wanted me to stay with her instead. Told me she wanted me to "prove" how much I loved her. I figured she should already know so I took a taxi cab 115 miles back to my truck and have never talked to her since. I could only imagine what she would demand of me due to being gone for my career. In order to have a family I need to be able to support them. In order to fish I need to be able to support her habits too.

Things for me are like a band-aid. End them quickly. If not I knew I wouldn't have had the willpower to do it later and I just know I would have ended up like the TONS of other guys I saw get dragged down by there relationships. Some make it happen but I couldn't.

Duck, that's called work and it's a 4 letter word. According to the up and coming masses, you're a sucker for taking the 'long' road.:rolleyes:

More incredible wisdom from a twenty something know it all that is an expert on pilot luggage, can't operate the equipment on his aircraft, can't properly understand a clearance, can't fly a stable approach, flies with people that are borderline dangerous, loses his passport, and can't pass a regional FO PC/Checkride the first time around.

Do you honestly think that YOUR company would would show ANY loyalty towards YOU?

can't wait till I can move from the CRJ 900 to the CRJ 1000.... does that count?

I disagree....
 

Moving from Mesa to an ExpressJet or SkyWest is NOT a lateral move.

I did a lateral from PDT to XJT. By comparison, it's like I wasn't even at a real airline before.

Ah whatever. What does CHQ expect. They're offering a 2500$ bonus to people w/ERJ time. Do they think that people are going to get that instructing? That bonus is SUPPOSED to draw people away from other places.

Hey, get out of here with your logical arguments. They've got no place here!
;)

So they won't hire current 121 pilots with CRJ or ERJ time but they’re offering a $2500 bonus to those with time in type? TD? Does this mean RAH has hiring CA's that are break company policy? Not really a good example to set?

I had a friend recently leave ASA for RAH; his interview was about 20 minutes long and was immediately placed in the next class. Shame on him; now he lives in domicile, sees his family more often and will upgrade in the same amount of time with an operator that has a more stable future full of growth.

TD, there are too many hypocrites in aviation, don't be one of them.

i interviewed last month and the chief pilot didn't come down on me for ditching TSA (must've been understood that i had a good reason). Kim did ask, and i gave her the straight answer as i saw it (bad work rules, mgmt that hates the pilots, etc.)

i was offered a class date within 30 minutes

True. Kind of a diagonal move. I'm not kidding at all...and if you haven't worked at mesa you're not qualified to comment on this.

Hey man I was shocked to hear it too. I think it comes down to the person hiring. The chief pilot is well known to be hard like that. The #1 pilot who also does hiring probably would have welcomed them aboard. Just saying some people out there might look at that stuff. Of course there's a difference between spending only 4 months at a place after they paid to train you vs a 2-3yr guy a mesa who now is making the jump.

I wasn't. I was just telling what happened.