Tony,

What years were you in the NATCA? ATC has had its own union issues in the past and now faces an uhill battle just as most labor groups do in the us. In many ways the sceptisism that many Pilots have about unions and ALPA is shared by Controllers after the Regan era. Its easy to show the faults of an organization, its is much harder to stand up and fix them. I hope, with your experience both good and bad, you choose to help steer SkyWest pilots if they decide to elect union representation.

Thanks

 

Uh, that's all great. I don't think SkyWest pilot jobs are going overseas if we don't get brand A labor union.

 

Tony, is your primary concern with ALPA that you are afraid of a Skywest/ASA merger? And what will happen with the seniority list?

First of all I highly doubt a merger will happen whether or not Skywest votes ALPA, but if I does happen and Skywest pilots don’t have a union to represent them. They will have a hard time getting favorable terms when seniority lists are merged. You can bet that ASA-ALPA would have a lot more re$ource$ to throw around.

Just some food for thought.

 

Isn't that kinda like buying a car with a bad engine ? Why would SkyWest pilots sign on to a faulty union? Do we get a discount ? Say, 1% dues, like APA ?

 

I know those resources won't come from ALPA for either side, if we are both ALPA.

Just review the HP and US merger (both ALPA).

If we're not ALPA, I don't see a merger happening, hence no need for the ALPA help that we wouldn't be getting if we were ALPA. (lost count of double negatives in that one ;-)

Quotes from one of the posts concerning the ALPA HP/US merger:

"Recently heard that the AAA pilots are looking at 'de-certifying' ALPA as a way to get rid of the award, would work; probably what ALPA needs to get a wake up call. ALPA needs a wake call, to get back to 'representing their membership' or DIE. They have F#$ked up sooooo much in the last 10-15yrs. (ALPA merger policy is a 'joke' and lead to this problem, failure to push for pension reform which would have saved most or all the the pensions, the age 60 thing, and so on, and on, and on).

As I said, definitely hope they 'de-certify' ALPA, if I were there, would vote YES on that tomorrow, would solve the 'list problem' and send ALPA a power message."

 

1988-2007...........

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

Uh, that's all great. I don't think SkyWest pilot jobs are going overseas if we don't get brand A labor union.

Tony,

I thought you would be up to speed with the laws coming up, that ALPA is fighting. The "Open skies II" is an ICAO program launched to allow foreign carriers open markets within the borders of American cities, and other nations as well. With the MPL license coming soon also you better believe that our jobs might go overseas. American pilots fly at foreign carriers, right?

Without a large union in Washington who knows what might happen with our jobs. Go to India a see what 200 hours, a MPL, and no union gets you. It would be niaive to think that cannot happen here in the USA. We enjoy our quality of life in the USA because we, the citizens, are united and fight for our rights in the global economy. If we as pilots don’t fight for our rights we will loose to the cheapest pilot out there that lives in a country where 15K will go a lot farther. That’s ok for them but not good for you and me.

And AGAIN, not just ALPA. The key is to be unified with legal representation. Make up the "Skywest Professional Pilots Assoc" but either way stay involved with union and also think ahead of your next paycheck. Read "flying the line", if you havent already. That will open up many sinister possibilities that can happen, because they already have in the past.

I think there are many benefits to a large brand A union, like ALPA. Even SWAPA,IPA, NPA, etc. think so because they have a coalition of unions that work together and share info. They all talk even with ALPA. But Brand A, as you put in is not the only option. I think it would be great if every pilot was united with a single union that represented all. I don’t care if that’s ALPA or any other set of representative letters, as long as it helps us all.

Thanks

 

There will be a merger if you vote in alpa, that is 100% certain. ASA alpa filed a single carrier petition about 2 years ago just for this purpose, but stince we are not alpa it was and still is useless. If we vote in alpa it will not be and a doh merger will happen and will end up being a staple for anyone hired after 2001 at skywest, that is alpa policy on mergers. However if we don't vote in alpa there will be no merger, it will stay status quo as ja and co will see no need to take a non union carrier and make it union carrier with 1 pilot group, when they can maintain a non-union airline. Why would they try and fend off alpa just to merge asa and skywest and turn it into one big alpa airline?

Asa pilots are banking THEIR futures on an alpa skywest, they aren't asking us to go alpa out of the goodness of their hearts because they care about our quality of life, they are pushing it because they know if skywest stays non-union airplanes will be transfered again, due to their stagnent contract negotiations.

That is the reality of the situation.

 

WOW. Where do you get your information from? Please, since it sounds like you are a SkyWest pilot go out and do some research about this. Not go on here or some other forum (even though this site is great) but call up ALPA, Look up the legal documents and packets available online, and talk to someone with the NLB or NMB.

I am an ALPA pilot. I do hope you get a union at SkyWest, not because I benefit directly, but because I know what can happen if you dont have a union and things go bad. There is no doubt that SkyWespilots like thier jobs, thier company, and thier workrules. With a Union NONE of that has to change. Look at the management/Pilot relationships at SWA and XJT. One is ALPA the other an independant union. Things have been good for the recent past.

BUT. what happens when SkyWest wants a little more profit for that Bonus program, or they change your pay, workrules, or healthcare? They can do that without asking and you have no legal recourse. Sure ALPA Carriers have had that happen in CH11 but a least there is a chance, a little hope because of legal protection. Without a union you have none.

If you are non union and ASA strikes a deal with SkyWest to merge you could be stapled, and you would have no option because you have no CBA. I will say this, I do not think anyone at ASA ALPA would flat out require a staple job because they respect you. But a union pilot is not going to bend over backwards for a non union pilot at merger time, especialy when you had the opportunity to help yourself. With a union you can talk things out.


Thanks

PS- I said I didnt have anything to directly gain from SkyWest becoming a union. The truth is all union pilots will gain a little something whenever one more carrier gets unionized because it brings together the collective voice. SO I will benefit and so will the pilots at SkyWest.

 

One more thing. Scratch everything good about unions you have heard... Because its up to YOU the SkyWest pilot to make things better at SkyWest. A union is only as strong as its members. If you vote in a union but dont care that your company doesnt follow pay or work rule agreements then you might as well be non-union.

A union is a great tool box for pilots to use when dealing with manegmant in the airline industry. Talks should be open and honest but if things start to get bad that is when your lawyers, analysts, safety experts, doctors, and communications folks help you make things fair and equitable.

Thanks