SKYWEST to Vote on ALPA
08-27-2007 | 02:51 PM
#41
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If I'm ALPA, I would do exactly what they are doing. Call for the SKYW vote PRIOR to the outcome of bargaining with MAG and the MAG Pilot Group. If ALPA thought they could (can) get a leading industry contract from MESA and JO, then why not wait to call for an election later.
It's all speculation, but I guarantee it is a point of discussion they are having, including the LOSS of Colgan Pilot group supporting ALPA.
It's all speculation, but I guarantee it is a point of discussion they are having, including the LOSS of Colgan Pilot group supporting ALPA.
08-27-2007 | 02:51 PM
#42
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I am currently undecided on SKW alpa. I guess I'll have to make up my mind soon... 
My previous alpa experience was not good, and I have reservations about alpa's ability (or incentive) to properly and fairly represent all the diverse pilot groups under their roof. I'm also doubtful that they could bring a great deal of improvements to the current SKW package without a bitter labor battle fought by a very determined and PO'ed pilot group (which is not going to happen).
On the other hand our industry naturally lends itself to unions...maybe the addition of a huge regional like SKW would tip the balance toward labor across the regional industry. Basically I view the alpa issue as not something that will directly benefit me at SKW, but might benefit the industry as a whole, including SKW (and wherever I end up next).
There's also the possibility that Jerry could retire tomorrow and bring in JO to run the company (after the MAG BOD finally grows enough ballz to can his pathetic @ss
). A real contract might be nice in the eventuality.
My previous alpa experience was not good, and I have reservations about alpa's ability (or incentive) to properly and fairly represent all the diverse pilot groups under their roof. I'm also doubtful that they could bring a great deal of improvements to the current SKW package without a bitter labor battle fought by a very determined and PO'ed pilot group (which is not going to happen).
On the other hand our industry naturally lends itself to unions...maybe the addition of a huge regional like SKW would tip the balance toward labor across the regional industry. Basically I view the alpa issue as not something that will directly benefit me at SKW, but might benefit the industry as a whole, including SKW (and wherever I end up next).
There's also the possibility that Jerry could retire tomorrow and bring in JO to run the company (after the MAG BOD finally grows enough ballz to can his pathetic @ss
). A real contract might be nice in the eventuality.ALPA won't do anything for YOU. It is always up to the Pilots collectively to fight for improvemnts in Pay, Conditions, Benefits etc...............
ALPA can't do that for you,,,,,,,,,,,but if you gals and guys are PO'd and can get together enough to see the need for improvements, Keep your eyes on the ball.................with ALPA's vast resources and experience, they can provide your elected leadership the tools necessary to acheive a negotiated contract with enhancements.
Don't expect to vote ALPA on property and have someone do the work for you. It will be up to YOU all of YOU to do it for your self. ALPA can make that much easier and Cheaper in the long run, but YOU must be willing to fight.
Without a UNION you will all be forced to remain as Collective Beggars (legal slavery is more accurate)
08-27-2007 | 04:05 PM
#43
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From: rj 700/900
"Without a UNION you will all be forced to remain as Collective Beggars (legal slavery is more accurate)"
I prefer to think of my self as an indentured servant, maybe involuntary servitude would be more appropriate
!!!! Damn those student loans....
I prefer to think of my self as an indentured servant, maybe involuntary servitude would be more appropriate
!!!! Damn those student loans....
08-27-2007 | 07:38 PM
#44
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: 30 West
08-27-2007 | 07:44 PM
#45
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Likes: 15
From: 30 West
Fact of the matter...........I am Pro ALPA
ALPA won't do anything for YOU. It is always up to the Pilots collectively to fight for improvemnts in Pay, Conditions, Benefits etc...............
ALPA can't do that for you,,,,,,,,,,,but if you gals and guys are PO'd and can get together enough to see the need for improvements, Keep your eyes on the ball.................with ALPA's vast resources and experience, they can provide your elected leadership the tools necessary to acheive a negotiated contract with enhancements.
Don't expect to vote ALPA on property and have someone do the work for you. It will be up to YOU all of YOU to do it for your self. ALPA can make that much easier and Cheaper in the long run, but YOU must be willing to fight.
Without a UNION you will all be forced to remain as Collective Beggars (legal slavery is more accurate)
ALPA won't do anything for YOU. It is always up to the Pilots collectively to fight for improvemnts in Pay, Conditions, Benefits etc...............
ALPA can't do that for you,,,,,,,,,,,but if you gals and guys are PO'd and can get together enough to see the need for improvements, Keep your eyes on the ball.................with ALPA's vast resources and experience, they can provide your elected leadership the tools necessary to acheive a negotiated contract with enhancements.
Don't expect to vote ALPA on property and have someone do the work for you. It will be up to YOU all of YOU to do it for your self. ALPA can make that much easier and Cheaper in the long run, but YOU must be willing to fight.
Without a UNION you will all be forced to remain as Collective Beggars (legal slavery is more accurate)
08-27-2007 | 07:57 PM
#46
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From: Part 121, 135 & Military background
I cannot help myself, but here goes, as I am not ready to drink the koolaid yet...
Seems like neither side would budge...
Yep. I agree, made the lives of ASA, Eagle, Republic and Skywest better. All those carriers have been growing for the last 6 years, bidding on business and winning it where Comair could not because of the higher costs they had. Heck, Skywest and ASA and Republic even got some of Comair's flying. So Comair, at the time of that contract the largest regional, shrinks. Less Captains, slower upgrades. In the end, they give it all back in bankruptcy. Big Win.
But hey, if being the pilot is the team sport you guys want it to be, why get ALPA to take a stand and not underbid other carriers for business? Seems to me, being a pilot is not the team sport some would like it to be. In the end, you have to make decisions based on what is good for ME AND MY FAMILY. OK, flame away.
Seems like neither side would budge...
Yep. I agree, made the lives of ASA, Eagle, Republic and Skywest better. All those carriers have been growing for the last 6 years, bidding on business and winning it where Comair could not because of the higher costs they had. Heck, Skywest and ASA and Republic even got some of Comair's flying. So Comair, at the time of that contract the largest regional, shrinks. Less Captains, slower upgrades. In the end, they give it all back in bankruptcy. Big Win.
But hey, if being the pilot is the team sport you guys want it to be, why get ALPA to take a stand and not underbid other carriers for business? Seems to me, being a pilot is not the team sport some would like it to be. In the end, you have to make decisions based on what is good for ME AND MY FAMILY. OK, flame away.
There is traditionally a game of one upmanship with contracts. It happens at the mainline (in 99 Delta went for United +10%) and at the regionals.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ONLY PROSPERED BECAUSE YOU WERE CHEAPER then you have drank the kool aid and believe the only future is in selling yourself short.
What happens if you don't make it to a legacy before the next down cycle? You'll be at Skywest for the next ten years. How do I know? it is the story of so many friends of mine here at ASA and quite frankly, me as well.
I beg you to think past your short term, personal goals. I could call you selfish and back that up, but that is not the point. I've learned through a decade of experience what is best and hope that you can learn from the wisdom of others who have been down the path that you embark.
Sincerely,
Stick
08-27-2007 | 08:01 PM
#47
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From: Part 121, 135 & Military background
And that right there is why things will never change in the regional industry. No one can raise the bar. Someone does, like Comair did, and what happens? Instead of following their lead and demanding a contract like Comair got, everyone undercuts them, accepts subpar pay just to get more flying because they are "getting their 1000PIC and going to a major." All this while companies rake in record profits and order many many multi-million dollar airplanes, while telling their pilots that they can't pay them any more because they will be "uncompetitive".
Stick
08-27-2007 | 09:25 PM
#49
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From: Self employed
Yah, that's gunna happen !!!! Managers industry wide will look at the new ALPA SkyWest and start changing the way business has been done in the airline business for the past 50 years.
Sure... you can bet on it (with you 1.95% dues).
Folks, each of you need to vote your conscience of what will work for you. One observation that I've made is that virtually nobody who hasn't sent in a card plans on voting for ALPA.
However, I've bumped into a surprising number who have sent in the cards, but do not plan to vote for ALPA (for various reasons).
One thing I know for sure. That magic "contract" that the organizers promise (and hint to improvements over what you currently have) is over 5 years in the making at our sister ALPA carrier. There's no guarantee you'll get anything overall better than what we now have.
But, you'll still be paying those mandatory 1.95% dues, every pay period, month after month, year after year. The ALPA president will still be counting his $750,000.00 year salary.
I'm not sure how I'm going to hedge my SkyWest stock, but I probably will be betting on another failed union drive. (PS: the market will react to this vote).
08-27-2007 | 10:14 PM
#50
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
tony youre missing the big picture.
I hope you look back it this when youre at your next airline - a major airline, and finally realize what this is all about. there are no hidden agendas, no conspiracies or people out to stick it to the company.
If you really are anti-union, I hope that at your next company (which will be union) you choose not to join the union. Save your 2% and buy more airline stock. But remember no crying if/when the time comes where you wish you had representation. By the way see how your fellow pilots treat you on the line, and see how you get treated at your next airline interview when you disclose to them that you voted no to ALPA.
I hope you look back it this when youre at your next airline - a major airline, and finally realize what this is all about. there are no hidden agendas, no conspiracies or people out to stick it to the company.
If you really are anti-union, I hope that at your next company (which will be union) you choose not to join the union. Save your 2% and buy more airline stock. But remember no crying if/when the time comes where you wish you had representation. By the way see how your fellow pilots treat you on the line, and see how you get treated at your next airline interview when you disclose to them that you voted no to ALPA.
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