Union Dues: A Good Investment?
08-31-2007, 10:33 AM
#1
The NeverEnding Story
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,503
Union Dues: A Good Investment?
From The Motley Fool
Labor Day brings the end of summer, the beginning of school, and an annual reminder that "the folks who brought you the weekend" used to carry some serious clout. Unions' influence has since dwindled, and by last year only 12% of workers counted themselves card-carrying members.
However, if you're on a manufacturing line, or you're a teacher, police officer, firefighter, or librarian, the odds remain pretty good that a union representative will come knocking at your door. If you're thinking about signing up, you may be wondering what those union dues buy.
Let's set politics aside for a moment in favor of economics. After all, unions promise to make your standard of living better through increased wages and benefits. The first thing to know? It's no guarantee, especially when an entire industry faces challenges. Despite strong unions in the auto industry, thousands of jobs have been eliminated at GM (NYSE: GM), Ford (NYSE: F), and Chrysler. And unions haven't prevented slashed pensions at airlines like UAL's (NYSE: UAUA) United Airlines and Delta Airlines (NYSE: DAL).
To find out whether your union dues will be money well spent, ask some questions:
* How much are the dues? Are they calculated as a percentage of your pay or as a flat fee? If they're a percentage of your pay, find out whether any future pay raises will be counted fully or partially toward that calculation. Don't assume that your union dues can be deducted from your taxes. They can, but they must (when combined with other professional expenses and other miscellaneous items) exceed 2% of your adjust gross income before you can start deducting them.
* How will your dues be spent? If your local or national representatives can't answer that question, it may be a sign that the union isn't acting as a good steward of your money.
* Find out whether the union stays active all the time, or whether it only gets organized when contract talks start. Ideally, you'd like your union to be paying attention to job matters even when they're not knee-deep in negotiations.
* Talk to your shop steward to find out what kind of successes the union has had on behalf of workers, individually and as a group, in the past. What kind of resources does the union have to help you pursue a problem or a contract violation? If you can talk with an employee who has used the union grievance procedure to try to remedy a job wrong, that's even better.
* Take a look at the contract, your salary, and your benefits and compare them to others in your industry. Are they better, or about the same? Even if they aren't ideal, has the union successfully staved off the erosion of benefits (like health and retirement perks) that has hit many workers?
* Does the union actively defend the contract? If you work in a place where the culture means that employees don't claim the rights they have in the contract, you may find your dues don't come back to you in the form of the overtime pay or other apparent benefits.
If you ask all these questions and you aren't satisfied with the answers, you have one more reason to think about joining -- pay your dues and get to work changing the organization from the inside.
Labor Day brings the end of summer, the beginning of school, and an annual reminder that "the folks who brought you the weekend" used to carry some serious clout. Unions' influence has since dwindled, and by last year only 12% of workers counted themselves card-carrying members.
However, if you're on a manufacturing line, or you're a teacher, police officer, firefighter, or librarian, the odds remain pretty good that a union representative will come knocking at your door. If you're thinking about signing up, you may be wondering what those union dues buy.
Let's set politics aside for a moment in favor of economics. After all, unions promise to make your standard of living better through increased wages and benefits. The first thing to know? It's no guarantee, especially when an entire industry faces challenges. Despite strong unions in the auto industry, thousands of jobs have been eliminated at GM (NYSE: GM), Ford (NYSE: F), and Chrysler. And unions haven't prevented slashed pensions at airlines like UAL's (NYSE: UAUA) United Airlines and Delta Airlines (NYSE: DAL).
To find out whether your union dues will be money well spent, ask some questions:
* How much are the dues? Are they calculated as a percentage of your pay or as a flat fee? If they're a percentage of your pay, find out whether any future pay raises will be counted fully or partially toward that calculation. Don't assume that your union dues can be deducted from your taxes. They can, but they must (when combined with other professional expenses and other miscellaneous items) exceed 2% of your adjust gross income before you can start deducting them.
* How will your dues be spent? If your local or national representatives can't answer that question, it may be a sign that the union isn't acting as a good steward of your money.
* Find out whether the union stays active all the time, or whether it only gets organized when contract talks start. Ideally, you'd like your union to be paying attention to job matters even when they're not knee-deep in negotiations.
* Talk to your shop steward to find out what kind of successes the union has had on behalf of workers, individually and as a group, in the past. What kind of resources does the union have to help you pursue a problem or a contract violation? If you can talk with an employee who has used the union grievance procedure to try to remedy a job wrong, that's even better.
* Take a look at the contract, your salary, and your benefits and compare them to others in your industry. Are they better, or about the same? Even if they aren't ideal, has the union successfully staved off the erosion of benefits (like health and retirement perks) that has hit many workers?
* Does the union actively defend the contract? If you work in a place where the culture means that employees don't claim the rights they have in the contract, you may find your dues don't come back to you in the form of the overtime pay or other apparent benefits.
If you ask all these questions and you aren't satisfied with the answers, you have one more reason to think about joining -- pay your dues and get to work changing the organization from the inside.
08-31-2007, 10:47 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,802
This post wasn't aimed at persuading the SKW pilot-group, was it?
I'm sounding like a broken-record here, but ya'll have to lay off pushing ALPA so hard. It's beginning to smack of snake-oil salesmanship. And this isn't aimed at any individual in-particular; but stop trying to tell us what's best for us.
The dynamics here are something you can't understand until you're on-board. I know it - I had never even considered SkyWest an option (almost completely due to lack of union representation) until I had been on the line with Trans States for several months. It may not be perfect here, or anywhere for that matter, but I've never been content at any job before coming here to SkyWest. Don't anybody ask me to give that up. Jerry has a good direction for us, and eventually, I believe Chip will do good by us as well. If not, well that's a bridge we cross when we get there.
I'm sounding like a broken-record here, but ya'll have to lay off pushing ALPA so hard. It's beginning to smack of snake-oil salesmanship. And this isn't aimed at any individual in-particular; but stop trying to tell us what's best for us.
The dynamics here are something you can't understand until you're on-board. I know it - I had never even considered SkyWest an option (almost completely due to lack of union representation) until I had been on the line with Trans States for several months. It may not be perfect here, or anywhere for that matter, but I've never been content at any job before coming here to SkyWest. Don't anybody ask me to give that up. Jerry has a good direction for us, and eventually, I believe Chip will do good by us as well. If not, well that's a bridge we cross when we get there.
08-31-2007, 10:53 AM
#3
The NeverEnding Story
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,503
Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
This post wasn't aimed at persuading the SKW pilot-group, was it?
If anything, it was more objective than anything else put on here regarding representation in a LONG, LONG time.
08-31-2007, 07:14 PM
#5
Permanent Ready Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Upright and Locked
Posts: 969
You know, I've been thinking. And this is in all seriousness. Is it possible to be pro-union but anti-alpa and be accepted in this industry? Everyone I meet either hates Alpa and unions or is a die-hard alpa supporter. Just wondering...
08-31-2007, 07:39 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,802
Don't get me wrong - I know Unions can be a good thing (but like anything, also a bad-thing if used the wrong way)...and I also think overall that ALPA is a good thing (again, also bad if used in the wrong way).
My only argument is that ALPA is not right for SkyWest at this time. Who knows what happens down the road when our current mgmt team is long gone and Chuck Colgan takes over? But regardless, my unionized brethren have my full-support.
My only argument is that ALPA is not right for SkyWest at this time. Who knows what happens down the road when our current mgmt team is long gone and Chuck Colgan takes over? But regardless, my unionized brethren have my full-support.
09-01-2007, 08:11 AM
#7
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,202
Paying dues is a minor issue in my mind, the cost of the dues is very far down on my list of considerations...
You will certainly get a return on the value of your dues from the fringe benefits alone (legal, safety, job protections etc).
But by far the most important issue is that you are bestowing a great deal of power on a group of individuals at your company and at the national organaztion...
Are they right people?
Do their personal interests coincide with your personal interests? (union MEC's tend to get stocked with lifer CA's at the regionals...not that there's anything wrong with that, but they may have a different agenda).
Does the national organization have interests and agendas that coincide with yours? Are they even able to do anything about your issues?
Historically, union-empowered senior pilots have an abysmal track record when it comes to taking care of junior pilots:
- B-scales.
- Scope Trade-aways.
- The regional/major caste system.
- Multiple lists under one brand (keeps the cost of feed flying low, thereby benefiting wide-body pilots).
I'm not saying don't vote for a union, but you should understand how human nature will tend to drive the dynamics and be prepared to deal with those dynamics or suffer the consequences.
You will certainly get a return on the value of your dues from the fringe benefits alone (legal, safety, job protections etc).
But by far the most important issue is that you are bestowing a great deal of power on a group of individuals at your company and at the national organaztion...
Are they right people?
Do their personal interests coincide with your personal interests? (union MEC's tend to get stocked with lifer CA's at the regionals...not that there's anything wrong with that, but they may have a different agenda).
Does the national organization have interests and agendas that coincide with yours? Are they even able to do anything about your issues?
Historically, union-empowered senior pilots have an abysmal track record when it comes to taking care of junior pilots:
- B-scales.
- Scope Trade-aways.
- The regional/major caste system.
- Multiple lists under one brand (keeps the cost of feed flying low, thereby benefiting wide-body pilots).
I'm not saying don't vote for a union, but you should understand how human nature will tend to drive the dynamics and be prepared to deal with those dynamics or suffer the consequences.
09-01-2007, 10:28 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
Don't get me wrong - I know Unions can be a good thing (but like anything, also a bad-thing if used the wrong way)...and I also think overall that ALPA is a good thing (again, also bad if used in the wrong way).
My only argument is that ALPA is not right for SkyWest at this time. Who knows what happens down the road when our current mgmt team is long gone and Chuck Colgan takes over? But regardless, my unionized brethren have my full-support.
My only argument is that ALPA is not right for SkyWest at this time. Who knows what happens down the road when our current mgmt team is long gone and Chuck Colgan takes over? But regardless, my unionized brethren have my full-support.
Ever notice when the Industry is in a downward cycle or at the Bottom that everything is all ALPA's fault?
Funny how nobody was complaining about ALPA in 2000 and before when DAL, UAL NWA and even USAir (with it's parity clause ) were all making very decent salaries.
It is ALPA's fault that 911 happened?
Is it ALPA's fault that Airline managment doesn't charge or wouldn't charge a reasonable fee per segment to ensure at least break even operation?
Is it ALPA's fault that an ANTI LABOR administration allowed the distress terminations of Pensions of 3 of the BIG 5 Legacies?
Is it ALPA's fault that the current administration agrees to lop-sided foreign trade agreements to ensure the outsourcing of American Labor and Jobs? Look no further than Open skies. Wait until OS phase II begins with MPL pilots flying 737 size aircraft or bigger
intra-US border making what a regional FO now makes.
Just look that Phase 2 of NAFTA that will now allow Mexican truckers free rights to delivery anywhere in the US. But I am sure that is all the Teamsters fault?
ALPA isn't in the business of running airlines. It is in the business of protecting and enhancing all of our careers. They (WE) have been faced with many challenges the past 7 years. We will be facing even more in the coming years. Would you rather face them without a
National Union? I keep saying this but Name another Professional Pilot Union that comes close to all that ALPA has acheived for every professional pilot.
Don't blame ALPA.
Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 09-01-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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