ASA has a TA!
 

Scoop on FI, details to follow I'm sure.

All info taken from Flightinfo
 

It is 100P ET and we have a Tentative Agreement with management for a new Contract.
After three days of intense negotiations we are happy to report that we have reached a tentative agreement on our entire contract. We will be working to finalize the contractual language over the next few days.
The next step in the process after we complete the final language is for the MEC to meet and approve the tentative agreement. If the new contract provisions are approved by the MEC we will begin road shows to address the pilot group as to the terms and conditions of the new collective bargaining agreement.
We know many are anxious to learn the contents of the new agreement, and we will be working to give you a comprehensive overview of the entire contract as soon as possible. Here are a few highlights of the issues discussed and tentatively agreed to over the last few days:

*
Scope protection: The Association was able to secure job protection provisions that will secure employment for our pilots. The Scope protection is multifaceted and achieves some protection through a no furlough clause, fragmentation provisions and a letter that binds our holding company to Section 1 Scope.
*
Pay Rates: See the tables below.
*
Signing bonus: $13,500,000.00 The distribution of this money will be decided by the MEC.
*
Profit sharing: The pilots will receive profit sharing.
*
Duty rigs: The agreement contains duty rigs that are 1 hour of pay for each 2 hours of duty up to 12 hours of duty and then 1 hour of pay for each hour after 12 hours, on a scheduled basis. The duty rig will apply to CDOs. The minimum day agreed to is 3.75 hours.

We know you are curious to see all the provisions and we will work diligently to get out a comprehensive overview as soon as possible. Please be patient as we work to finalize the language and put together a presentation for your review. We will provide details about road show schedules in the next week or so.

Pay Rates
60-76 Seat Turbojet Captain

Effective Date
DOS
DOS+1
DOS+2
DOS+3

Year 1
$ 60.80
$ 61.41
$ 62.02
$ 62.64

Year 2
$ 62.69
$ 63.32
$ 63.95
$ 64.59

Year 3
$ 64.61
$ 65.26
$ 65.91
$ 66.57

Year 4
$ 66.62
$ 67.29
$ 67.96
$ 68.64

Year 5
$ 68.69
$ 69.38
$ 70.07
$ 70.77

Year 6
$ 70.81
$ 71.52
$ 72.23
$ 72.96

Year 7
$ 72.99
$ 73.72
$ 74.46
$ 75.20

Year 8
$ 75.25
$ 76.00
$ 76.76
$ 77.52

Year 9
$ 78.29
$ 79.07
$ 79.86
$ 80.66

Year 10
$ 81.44
$ 82.25
$ 83.07
$ 83.90

Year 11
$ 83.95
$ 84.79
$ 85.64
$ 86.50

Year 12
$ 86.55
$ 87.41
$ 88.29
$ 89.17

Year 13
$ 89.23
$ 90.13
$ 91.03
$ 91.94

Year 14
$ 91.98
$ 92.90
$ 93.83
$ 94.77

Year 15
$ 94.83
$ 95.78
$ 96.73
$ 97.70

Year 16
$ 97.68
$ 98.65
$ 99.64
$ 100.64

Year 17
$ 100.60
$ 101.60
$ 102.62
$ 103.64

Year 18
$ 103.62
$ 104.65
$ 105.70
$ 106.76


60-76 Seat Turbojet First Officer

Effective Date
DOS
DOS+1
DOS+2
DOS+3

Year 1
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00

Year 2
$ 37.61
$ 37.99
$ 38.37
$ 38.75

Year 3
$ 38.77
$ 39.15
$ 39.55
$ 39.94

Year 4
$ 39.97
$ 40.37
$ 40.78
$ 41.18

Year 5
$ 41.21
$ 41.63
$ 42.04
$ 42.46

Year 6
$ 42.49
$ 42.91
$ 43.34
$ 43.77

Year 7
$ 43.80
$ 44.23
$ 44.68
$ 45.12

Year 8
$ 45.15
$ 45.60
$ 46.05
$ 46.51

35-59 Seat Turbojet Captain /ATR

Effective Date
DOS
DOS+1
DOS+2
DOS+3

Year 1
$ 54.73
$ 55.28
$ 55.83
$ 56.39

Year 2
$ 57.87
$ 58.45
$ 59.03
$ 59.62

Year 3
$ 61.80
$ 62.42
$ 63.04
$ 63.67

Year 4
$ 63.73
$ 64.37
$ 65.01
$ 65.66

Year 5
$ 65.68
$ 66.34
$ 67.00
$ 67.67

Year 6
$ 67.72
$ 68.40
$ 69.08
$ 69.77

Year 7
$ 69.81
$ 70.51
$ 71.21
$ 71.93

Year 8
$ 71.97
$ 72.69
$ 73.42
$ 74.15

Year 9
$ 74.18
$ 74.92
$ 75.67
$ 76.43

Year 10
$ 76.50
$ 77.27
$ 78.04
$ 78.82

Year 11
$ 78.87
$ 79.66
$ 80.46
$ 81.26

Year 12
$ 81.66
$ 82.48
$ 83.30
$ 84.13

Year 13
$ 83.81
$ 84.65
$ 85.49
$ 86.35

Year 14
$ 86.40
$ 87.26
$ 88.14
$ 89.02

Year 15
$ 89.08
$ 89.97
$ 90.87
$ 91.78

Year 16
$ 91.75
$ 92.67
$ 93.59
$ 94.53

Year 17
$ 94.04
$ 94.98
$ 95.93
$ 96.89

Year 18
$ 96.39
$ 97.35
$ 98.33
$ 99.31

35-59 Seat Turbojet First Officer/ATR First Officer

Effective Date
DOS
DOS+1
DOS+2
DOS+3

Year 1
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00

Year 2
$ 34.72
$ 35.07
$ 35.42
$ 35.77

Year 3
$ 37.08
$ 37.45
$ 37.83
$ 38.20

Year 4
$ 38.24
$ 38.62
$ 39.01
$ 39.40

Year 5
$ 39.41
$ 39.80
$ 40.20
$ 40.60

Year 6
$ 40.63
$ 41.04
$ 41.45
$ 41.86

Year 7
$ 41.89
$ 42.30
$ 42.73
$ 43.16

Just because the MEC endorses it doesn't mean you have to. . . . . but y'all know that.

Great news. It's been a long time and you guys need something positive.

After a quick analysis of those posts...

The TA'd 50 seat FO rates through year 4 are lower than AWAC 10/07 rates, but are better year 5 and beyond. The TA'd 50 seat FO rates are better than XJT 12/07 rates through year three, but XJT is better year 4 and beyond.

50 seat CA rates through at least year 5 are lower than both AWAC 10/07 and XJT 12/07 rates.

I did not compare 70 seat CA/FO rates because I don't have exact info for Skywest or Comair.

With the limited info available it is difficult to tell how good the TA really is as a whole document, but the duty rig and min day both look pretty good to me.

Congratulations to all Acey pilots on *finally* achieving a TA!

One final post...I don't work for ASA!

But I'm still happy for them!!!

:D

Does each hourly wage figure represent what is earned per quarter in each year of service?


atp

duty rig is a big plus, congrats to asa if this goes or has already gone through. let the whipsawing with skywest begin, i hope this motivates the people on the fence over there...

Congrats to the ASA guys, you deserve it. Maybe this will get the ball rolling for the rest of us that are in negotiations right now.

DOS increases appear to be around 1% per year...take cost of living into account and you're taking a pay cut every year.

Good to get a rig, though. 2:1 duty is ok, 1:1 for everything over 12 is excellent...the TAFB rig is still a little loose, Horizon got 4:1 and the company responded by building every line to around 400 TAFB :eek:. Dunno what your trips are like now.

Congrats on getting the company to stop stonewalling you. Your solidarity has been impressive the last few weeks.

Well i guess its a place to start... but the only real substantial baseline increase is in year one FO pay.... the rest appears at a glance to be a 2% overall increase..with 1% yearly increases....

Now the rigs... that could and will effect pay more than rates depending on what scheduling does in the future .... good luck guys

YES YES YES YES!

Thats all I can say. I started in June and am flying the line now. All I can say is Dang I got in at the right time.

I hope that this goes through with out any problems so we can be cornerstone of what could be a new tomorrow for ALL regional carriers out there.

Good luck to all carriers that are in negotiations!

~m

Congrats ASA!

I hope you approve it. It looks just like our pay "policy," but the majority of your hourly rates are higher than ours. It’s a HUGE increase for your 200/ATR CA’s. The pay rigging is going to work out great for you guys. You’ll easily credit 1100-1250 hours of pay per year while only flying around 900-950. If you push 1000 hours you’ll see credit returns around 1300.

Hopefully our pilot group will look at this and see that we need representation. Yes it took you guys 5+ years but it was worth the wait. Some SKW pilots will look at this without realizing it took us almost as long and out pay “policies” a joke. You guys have solid hourly rates and we have “Smoke and Mirrors” Block Overrides. SKW Mgmnt's suppose to be looking out for us; instead we make $19/hr first year and Block (not credit) Overrides. SAPA made this out to be a huge win, wake up SKW pilots! SAPA's a joke and this just goes to show you how much of a puppet they are for Mgmnt.

Congrats guys!

When does the ALPA vote end at Skywest?

The conspiracy theorist in me says SGU will offer to match Skywest pilots to the TA'd ASA agreement (at least the parts that exceed SKW's current "policy") in an attempt to keep the union off property.

BFD!!!!!

You are still asking people to prostitute themselves after having proven themselves by putting out 30 to 50K in training costs for their licenses and then getting the flight time to get the job. Reward them for gosh sakes.

Year 1
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00
$ 23.00

Year 2
$ 34.72
$ 35.07
$ 35.42
$ 35.77

This is more ALPO being fed to the junior guys by ALPA and its gaggle of wannabe negotiators.

Devil's Advocate
 

I also wish those FO payrates were a couple dollars higher....they are below AWAC's concessionary FO rates from 2003 until year 5, albeit higher than XJT's payrates until year 4. A good thing for ASA pilots is FO wages beyond the probationary year are tied to 60% of CA wages, so no FO "b-scale".

ASA and all regional airlines, for better or worse, are an entry-level job into the airline industry with low-longevity payrates (unfortunately) reflecting that. Unfortunately the more large small jets mainline pilots allow to be outsourced to regionals the longer folks will be "entry-level" employees.

What do YOU desire for 50 seat wages, IronWalt? No flame, just an honest question.

Yes it would be nice to make $50/hr first year but it's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm not being close minded just realistic. Take a look at the regional business model and tell me where an RJ pilot can make mainline rates? The main reason for the regional growth was because of our lower cost. If we get mainline rates then it would be more beneficial for them to retain the flying and not pay the increase regional margin. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it’s reality.

You say BFD? Well it is for ASA pilots. This is a huge raise for their 1 year FO's, ATR and CR2 CA's. 95+% of the industry to kill for this TA. Do you actually think ASA would have come off so well is they had been bought by JO? No, instead they were purchased by SKW and now they have a top level contract.

I’m very happy for all ASA pilots and I wish them the best.

Looks just like what we have at skywest, -2% of course.

2% equates to thousands of dollars.

Duty rig is great.
Trip rig could use some help, but not too bad.

Pay rates look ok.
Nice 1st year FO bump from $19 to $23.
FO rates did not improve much at all. They are somewhat decent compared to the rest of the industry, but they always were. No big raise for FO's.
Looks like 50 seat captains got a good raise. Still below XJT/AWAC and perhaps a few others.
Looks like 70 seat captains got hardly anything. That looks like the worst part of the TA.
As for the signing bonus, there are about 1700 pilots at ASA, so that works to an AVERAGE of $7900 bonus per pilot. That works out to about $1600 per year. They can improve that!!


If it gets sent back, work on that trip rig, FO pay, and 70 seat captain pay. A 70 seat jet holds 40% more people than a 50 seat jet. It brings in 40% more revenue. Yet you are barely getting like a 6% differential.
5 years of contract negotiations should get you something.

Retro
 

I think their signing bonus (retro pay...which SkyWest doesn't get because BH decided he didn't want to pay it) will offset the dues for several years. Furthermore, the offer includes first year pay that is much better than SkyWest, a commuter clause and it looks like scope protection (this is huge in my opinion...if it is voted in, SkyWest upgrades may slow down. Congratulations ASA...it is good to see a pilot group with some unity.

Care to explain how ASA's TA would slow SKW upgrades, if signed? They're completely different airlines with completely different pilot groups on completely different Ops Certs. ASA doesn't affect SKW; SKW cost per seat per mile is still lower. That means that any new flying will probably be done by SKW and not ASA, as long as it doesn’t conflict with their current contracts. No offense ASA but it only makes sense, lower cost equals more profit. As long as we are represented by SAPA we will never see the company truly thank us for our sacrifice. A sacrifice I’d rather not take; “show me tha money!” Then again people like Slaphappy will say they are "showing us the money" with quick upgrades. Isn't this the same philosophy as JO, I understand that JA and JO are completely different but I'll take my money now please.

ASA's TA, if signed, WILL NOT AFFECT SKW UPGRADES. NOT ONE BIT! If anything, it was good that ASA got their scope. Once the TA is signed, JA can do as he pleases, with in the letter of the law; and he pays millions to ensure the law is always grey.

Curious about the duty rig. I scanned the info about them on the APC main page, but I'm still a bit lost perhaps. I calculated my schedule next month using the duty rig pay in this TA and I lost hours big time. I'm in the bottom 2/3's of my base getting these trips too. Am I miscalculating how these are applied?

Say I have a 10 hour duty day and scheduled for 6 hours of flying, am I not losing an hour of pay with this rig system or is it: block or rig, whatever is greater?

I don't work at ASA, just curious if I'm figuring correctly. If so, I don't think its that good of a deal.

Jerry has told the ASA MEC that they will give/transfer AC to the lowest cost carrier. Isn't that what scope is for? To prevent the transfer of aircraft and protect jobs? That is why it is my opinion that it could slow the upgrades at SkyWest.

No, you will get the higher of:

a. Block or better
b. Duty Rig
c. Minimum daily Guarantee (3:45)

So in your above example you will be paid for the 6 hours of flying, credit will NEVER be lower than Block.

But if you have a 10 hour duty day and 4 hours of flying you will be paid 5 hours, which is half of your duty.


EXAMPLE A:

This works great on Stand-Ups/CDO's. Let's say you have a stand up that has you on duty for 13:15 and it includes on leg to BNA and back. That's about 3 hours or so of block but you will be paid 7:15 minutes. For the first 12 hours of duty you get paid half or 6 hours and then 1:1 for every minute over for a total credit of 7:15 of pay.


EXAMPLE B:

Now let’s say you only have a deadhead on day 1 to BNA with 3 legs on day 2:

DAY1:

ATL -BNA
Block: 0
DH: 1:30
Credit: 3:45 (ASA's new daily guarantee, which is the least you can ever be paid)
Duty 5:0

DAY2:
Block: 6 hours
Credit: 6 hours
Duty 8:0

Total compensation is 9:45 on 6 hours of block. (Day 1 Credit is 3:45 + day two credit of 6 = 9:45 of credit)

PS Credit must be equal to or great than block, ALWAYS!

Thanks,

That sounds better!

SKW has the lower cost between the two airlines but our upgrades aren't because of transfers. It's because of all the flying we've been awarded; between Midwest, DAL and UAL we've barely been able to keep up with upgrades and new hires. It's good that ASA got their scope otherwise JA could transfer a/c to SKW inorder to increase SKW Inc's margins. That's a huge win for ASA!

Like I said, ASA's new TA will not affect SKW upgrades. The only way that ASA could affect SKW upgrades is if we were to merge, and even then it would take years before an ASA pilot could take a SKW pilot upgrade because of fences that would be negotiated.

Are you sure you are not reading this wrong. It sounds to me like the duty rig only applies to standups (CDOs). Not to normal duty days. The normal duty day just has a minimum pay of 3h45m not a duty rig.

:confused:

I just copied-and-pasted.

The way I read it is CDOs will pay based on the duty rig, not the min day credit.

Generally speaking, how do they split up backpay? I heard a former ASA employee say he was looking forward to back pay, but he works at Airtran now for at least the last couple of years.

Do they base the pay on what a Capt makes compared to an F/O (in other words if the F/O makes 40% of the Capt pay would he get 40% relative to the Capts backpay)? Does it matter what seat you're sitting currently, to what you were sitting for most of the negotiating time period? Does amount of time a pilot has been on property during the negotiatin period go into the computation?

Sounds like it is a signing bonus. So if you don't work there anymore you get nothing.

Back pay would take the difference in pay-scales times hours worked, which doesn't sound like the case here.

margin
 

Not sure SkyWest really has the lowest operating cost. Look at reported profit margins in 06. Still my opinion that your ATL base will grow less than SkyWest management wanted and as a result the upgrades wouldn't come as fast.

(Operating Profit/Loss as Percent of Total Operating Revenue)
Regional Carriers
Pinnacle

Atlantic Southeast

American Eagle

ExpressJet

Sky West

Comair

Mesa

Seven-Carrier Total
Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics; Form 41, Schedule P1.2

The way I read this is that if you are not scheduled over 12 overs of duty, you will not get the 1 for 1 if you go over 12 hours of duty. Do you guys read it that way?

If you were scheduled for 11:30 of duty and go 13 hours, you would not get the 1 for 1 after 12. Am I wrong? We all know how easy you can have your day pushed over 12 hours in the ATL on bad weather days.

Duty rig is based on schedule.

The TA has not been released so nothing is really in detail yet. We should get details this next week or two and see if it is a good deal. Looks ok.

I think one thing is clear. The company finally decided that they needed to finalize a deal, and the union realized that it was time to get it done. It looks like we got a lot of what was asked for but concessions in some key areas.

This is food for thought. They SKW would never have agreed to scope protection if ASA was going to shrink. Hence I think a part of getting this done is allowing us to grow. Since our costs are in line and I think you will see a HUGE increase in performance now, it will be really interested to see what happens between Skywest and ASA. Skywest has enjoyed the run for the last few years now we will see how long that lasts. There are lots of rumours of new bases out west and new flying for ASA.

What I do know is that as a 32 year old 7 year ASA captain this is good news for me. I am just now waiting for my $10K bonus check :)

BoilerUp, I realise you just cut and pasted. My comment was directed to the people who were trying to decipher this duty rig after you posted it. I am curious to see the actual language of the TA.

Profit margins show the %age between cost and revenue. Those who have higher fees for departure will have higher profit margins, most of the time. DAL flying 3 years ago had higher profit margins than DAL flying of today. SKW's has more flying at lower fees for departure than ASA seeing that SKW was been awarded new flying during more competitive times.

I don't think you understand. Our ATL base has already grown as far as DAL has contracted us to. During peak seasons we currently have around 50 lines and off peak around 40 lines of flying. All of our "growth" in ALT was CR9 flying and we’ve received all the CR9's we’re contracted to fly for DAL; also we have no more CR9's on order. So how can our ATL base continue to grow if it's only contracted to be as large as it currently is?

As I've said, our upgrades will be completely unaffected by both ASA's possible new TA and our ATL base.

So understand this, we have no more growth on the books for the future other than the possibility of 10 more a/c for Midwest.

I haven't heard anything about "expansion" to the west. What kind of flying would it be and who for? ExpressJet got the coveted LAX...

You are correct. You must be "Scheduled" over 12 to get the 1:1; also if you're scheduled 13 and duty 14 you only get paid scheduled.

US Airways I'd like you to meet ASA; ASA, US Airways. Mesa, hit the road! LOL! :D