top 5 regionals
 

strictly based on overall company quality, contract, and pay, what are the top 5 regionals right now? What are some to stay away from based on the above? Are there any that would be "risky" to go to?

Yes; all of them.

5-10 years ago I would have said Comair and Eagle, but things have shifted and now I'd put best regional votes in for the Republic group, AWAC, and XJet.

Heres my list
 

1) Has a base where you live
2) Industry average pay
3) Industry average upgrade
4) A good contract, with either a union, or a pilot group that is "in-house"
5) A good diversity of flying......


Remember a few things.....
- the regional that is the "place to be" one day could be a sinking ship in a year or two...........

-Airlines that hire "street CA's" usually dont have enough qualified FO's, you might want to ask yourself why?

-Dont go to an airline to chase an airplane, the 170/Crj-700/900 is super but its no 75/6.

-Past performance is no indication of future results, or however that saying goes...........

-Dont assume you are only going to use a regional as a stepping tone, you never know when the music is going to stop, and if and when ti does you are going to want to be at a company that has decent work rules/pay, because that TPIC is not going to do much for you if/when the big boys have thousands of pilots on the street

-I will play devils advocate here and also say I would'nt want to grow old in the right seat of a "good regional",

-Also dont stab your airline brothers and sisters in the back by going to a low-class Alter eGO-airline.................Go-Jets for all the new guys that dont know what I am talking about

-ok Im done with the ranting time to go to the Delilahs Den ;) talk to ya guys tomorrow........

DOESN'T EXIST AIRLINES.

The one that's closes to your home as long as it's not mesa or gojets.

Watch out for ASA, let's see how this new TA plays out.

AWAC, Republic, and Xjet are still up there.

Republic has about one billion to one trillion domiciles, so they're good for those who are looking for base flexibility.

And i'd have to say Comair, the work rules aren't terribly bad, the pay is somewhat competitive (as saab said, you can't look at what the past was like ) and i think Comair is set up to grow big time. Time will tell.

As was said earlier, every regional is risky..you can only pick one thats best for you at the time..and gander at what it's going to be like in 5-10 years.

I'd personally stay away from eagle. That's just my 2 cents.

Could not have said this better. Saab pretty much covered everything. Choose with wisdom rather than excitement (aka SJS). If you want a list of what I would do now, knowing what i know now, and after being in the regionals over a year (which I admit is limited)... here ya go in no particular order...

AWAC... Skywest... Expressjet... Republic... Horizon

Where NOT to go...

Mesa (freedom, go!, air midwest)... TSA... GoJet... Mesaba... Pinnacle... and so many more.

Nothing wrong with 9E, especially if they have a domicile in your town.

Yeah the pay and workrules stink (for now), but we'll see what happens once they get a new contract. With shareholders to answer to and a 2nd codeshare in the very near future, the only thing that will limit what those pilots can get is themselves (and the NLMB, but I digress).

What The *******, over?!?

I really don't agree...why chase average if you can find something that better suits your needs? For example, some would rather upgrade much quicker than average if possible (i.e. six months), in order to hope to be interviewing at the majors (hope, because all that can change, like you say) when all your buddies at the "average" regional with the "good contract" are thinking about upgrading.

FWIW, industry average pay is still terrible...

What does diversity of flying matter? Sure, it might be nice, but I'd say it is a looooong way down the list.

It sure is nice to live in base, though...one just needs to realize that bases close all the time (AWAC's "great migration" comes to mind), so don't base it solely on that one. All of the above factors you mention are highly volatile, with the exception of pay (depending on how much is left on the contract).

That's kind of a discombobulated set of thoughts I just wrote, but I'll leave them, I guess, not sure of how else to put it.

The key for me is, and always has been: Your top 5 regionals are going to be way different than my top 5. Do what works the best for you.

Groovin, I am awfully curious why TSA, Pinnacle, and Mesaba make your list of no-gos...I'm guessing you're goosey because of Mesaba's insanity swing from furloughs/pay cuts to hiring in droves within 18 months, and that you think TSA and Pinnacle don't treat their people well enough....Hope all is goin' well!

Risk
 

They are indeed all risky. Go to a place that treats their employees well, you take the risk of being there about 15 years, and never moving on to a major. Granted, if that happens, at least you are at a place that will take care of you. Go to a place that treats their employees like crap (but has a good industry reputation), and you'll likely be upgrading/moving on quickly...but only if the market is good. The risk here is that if you get stuck at such an airline, you are still being treated like scum. Go to a startup airline, or one with a lot of new markets, and the risk is that they might go bankrupt on their big business venture and you'll be on the street. Or, they could be ravenously successful and you'll be living like a king...who knows.

The only thing you can be certain of is that if you go to a place with an absolutely horrible reputation all around (i.e. Mesa Air Group, GoJet), you will likely be very displeased with your job.

History tends to repeat itself.

Top 5
I will bite.

1. Horizon
2. ExpressJet
3. Skywest
4/5. TIE Republic and Air Wisconsin

Horizon is by far the best. The highest first year pay around. Actually the highest pay around period. They have the best contract in the regionals, and it is the ONLY regional I would ever consider being a lifer at.

ExpressJet has set the bar high for 50 seat jet pay. Good contract. Lots of movement recently.

Skywest has decent pay and good work rules. Quick upgrade. Most everyone seems to be happy there.

Air Wisconsin and Republic are both good places. Air Wisconsin doesn't have any growth, however upgrade time is still relatively low. They will not be losing any flying for a while. Maybe they will pick up some more flying.
Republic is lucky in that they are diversified amongst the carriers they operate for (United, Delta, Continental, US Air). They have a fairly good contract. 2nd year FO pay is a joke.


Places to stay away from (in order of worst to slightly less bad)
1. GoJet
2. Mesa
3. Trans States
4. Lynx
5. Great Lakes

GoJet is by far the worst. They are an alter-ego carrier (the next level right below scabs). They fly 70 seat jets for less than 50 seat pay. All GoJet's pilots are hated (especially by those at Trans States). If you go there, you are making a huge mistake.

Mesa pilots had a sh*tty contract shoved down their throats last time around because they were busy protecting their jobs. For the equipment they fly, pay is industry worst. Work rules are indsutry worst (can you say 8 days off). Contract is industry worst. Lots of turnover (over 700 Mesa pilots have quit so far this year. This is approximately 1/2 of their pilot workforce). Upgrade is amongst the longest in the regionals. Don't go there. Mesa is a sinking ship.

Trans States pilots got screwed by management with the creation of GoJet. Pay is bad (look at 2nd year FO pay). Contract is bad. Most pilots do not like it there.

Lynx. $43.75 an hour for a captain on a 74 seat aircraft. Enough said.

Great Lakes. They fly the hell out of you. You make the worst pay rate in the industry ($15/hr starting pay), although they do fly small airplanes. Not necessarily a bad company, but there are many better opportunities.

There is nothing wrong with Mesaba other than crappy jet FO pay. It's actually competitive for the Saab FO's, but way below average for year 2 and onwards jet FO pay (although it's still higher than PCL FO pay). Sorry, there was nothing anyone could do about this while in BK.

Our work rules are generally above average.
Our upgrade is above average (sigh...FINALLY).
Our training department is above average.
Our safety record is above average (yes, I know, we'll see what the future holds, however, see above).
Our union effectiveness is above average.
Our Captain pay is pretty much industry average, and soon to go up considerably with the wage recaptures.
Our pilot group as a whole is certainly at least average.

Our corporate management, unfortunately, is also average. So we aren't Horizon or Xjet, whaddya want?

Even though Pinnacle does have issues with work rules/contract, as someone said before....I think Pinnacle is a good place to be if you live in base, and you are looking for a quick upgrade. Sure companies like Comair and Horizon are good places to go, but if you want a 5 year upgrade and be looking at all your friends who went to a place like Pinnacle and are sitting 3rd year Captain while you're still waiting 2 more years to upgrade, the decision becomes easier in my opinion. No place is perfect, but I know I'll upgrade quicker than some people who were hired 2-3 years before me at other regionals. I mean, isn't that why we are all doing this...either to be a stepping stone or to hold a captain position ASAP?

I agree with almost everything you've said. Upgrade is waaay above average right now...Im not sure most people are even aware of that. F/O pay is quite laughable though. When do we get the wage recaptures? One other thing I will say is that for those of us in training right now, we would hardly call the training dept above average...not because of safety issues but because of the way we've all been jerked around with our schedules and such. Things are evidently very disorganized in that regard.

Point taken, but you're still putting XJ in with a group of other carriers in which we certainly don't share the "obvious negative qualities" of those carriers.

Well, at least over the last few years the training dept has been very good. I believe the recent problems all come down to lack of management foresight and overall cheapskate-ness. In a nutshell, they have failed to staff the training department adequately for the growth phase we are in. Plus, they are outsourcing too much, which might help grow the fat mgt. bonuses, but is never good as far as effective training goes.

What's the upgrade time at Horizon again?

I don't undertsnd how they think they are saving money by paying many of us to sit home, then fly us to DEN or YUL (AGAIN), pay for hotels (AGAIN) and pay for more sim time (AGAIN). Funny also that we have a -200 sim for 15 planes and no sim for the 'new' -900 for which we are taking 36 with options for many more. But, I digress...my sim partner told me not question such things...no point in racking one's brain...I have enough to learn, he reasons.

Yeah, I hear ya, it's the whole trip-over-a-dollar-to save-a-penny management mindset. I'm just trying to convey that the problems come from poor decisions made by the corporate managers, and the training dept. is left trying to pick up the pieces. Furthermore, the training is good when it's IN-HOUSE (done by Mesaba seniority list pilots or Mesaba instructors). It typically suffers significantly when it's outsourced (YUL or STL).

I agree...in fact Im told one problem with guys on the CRJ is that the way CAE in Denver teaches is different from the way XJ wants it. And its to the point that guys are busting their rides because of it.

what about XJET? From everyone I talk to over there they are all happy with the contract/pay/schedules ect, but they seem to be on thin ice right now with the branded flying and the possibility of CAL pulling more a/c. Is it possible they could be out of work in the near future? That sounds more risky than anywhere else right now. Still everyone I know over there seems to think its the best.

not even close, I think we will end up signing a long term deal with CAL, I guess more wishful thinking than anything (at this point), but also our branded loads for the quarter was around 61%, and only a few routes are like 10 people and once those are revised to lets say two flights a day instead of three, or one a day instead of two our Load Factors will improve. These things take time to figure out which markets to bail on or reduce.

I know Toilet will come on here and say we are going to lose our flying to CAL, but Larry Kellner is not stupid, he knows he cant find a carrier that is staffed both a/c and pilot wise to just completely cut us loose. I think we will have our CPA canceled and a longer pro-rate deal signed, and if that was the case I will be very happy, becuase I would have made thousands by buying a whole bunch of stock at $2.86.share

I hope so man like I said everyone I know loves it over there. I just don't understand why they would explore flying in other countries if the branded stuff is set to improve. And whats this I've been hearing about RAH set to do all the flying in CLE? If that happens and XJT shrinks in EWR, where will those a/c go? My friend at Express says by June 2008 XJT will only have 13 gates in EWR.

Yeah EWR is shrinking by almost50-80 lines by the end of the summer, but thats because a lot of the regional flying is shifting to CLE, and CAL wants the gates here in EWR. Also XJT in Australia if it was ever done ( I dont see it anytime soon) would be done with newly purchased airframes from what I understand.

Look, its really simple, more people are flying now then ever before, airlines are making money hand over fist and could fill up mainline a/c, where as 2-3 years ago they had to rely on the RJ. As the regional world shrinks, the Major world will grow, but dont forget they will always need feed...........

Weeeelllll your friend at XJT is a moron because XJT does not have any gates at EWR. There are 15 CONTINENTAL gates that we use (the C101-C115) plus 1 or 2 over in Terminal A for DCA/IAD flights. Ever check out the "XJT gates" at EWR after about 530pm? Lots of 757s and 767s getting ready to go to Europe.

According to the pilot conference call with management, 14 aircraft are being replaced by Colgan in EWR and moving to CLE. CLE departures by ExpressJet aircraft are to increase by 50/day. So tell whoever you're talking to at RAH to step away from the kool-aid dispenser.

ok thanks a lot i didn't realize that. It seems ridiculous then that a lot of ppl on here are preaching doom and gloom about XJT. Friends of mine got offers from both XJT and RAH and went to Republic because they said they wanted to have a job in 5 years. Seems like they too were drinking too much kool-aid when I look at the FO pay rate difference.

nice bro, I love it, and yeah seems like more and more RAH guys are dogging on XJT, maybe its just Toiletduck

Let 'em dog us. While they drop to their knees for every major airline out there, taking whatever they can get, paying their pilots peanuts we can fly airplanes with OUR name on the side of em. The only airplanes CHQ has with their name on it are those uglyass white tails they have floating around. That must be why they hate us so much:D

Curiosity overwhelms me, so what in the world would make you think this? In the last three years it seems like anything but growth/good news for Comair.

The regionals that seem to be at the top right now will probably seem like they are near the middle or bottom in 5 to 10 years. There is constant reshuffling with the regionals. Its just the way the industry works. The majors change who they contract with and at what level they contract with them every so often.

In time some of the ones that everyone seems to look at as top shelf may be down near the bottom of the list or gone altogether.

Though it it may be tough to get below the level of Mesa. They have and will always be at the bottom of the list.

Been at Lakes 2.5 years. I have 2 type ratings and 1000 turbine pic. I start class at a major in november. All my internal recs came from ex-Lakers. I couldnt've asked for a BETTER opportunity.

Congrats on your upcoming opportunity...but I have to seriously ask:

How did you financially afford to be at Lakes for 2.5 years, even with a fast upgrade? I don't have any debt outside of $50k in student loans and I simply couldn't work there without going into tens of thousands in debt...even living a frugal college lifestyle.

I lived with my aunt and uncle as an FO for 5 months. Then I held a line 90+ credit hours and rented an apartment with a roommate for the next 7 months. Then I upgraded. As a line holding 2nd year captain at lakes, you are going to bring home about the same as a 2nd yr fo at an rj job. Recently I have been doing 120 credit hours per month on the brasilia and bringing home over 3K per month. I am not gonna lie... it has been a financial struggle but it was definately worth it.

And you are going to a Major where seniority is EVERYTHING. Good job. People don't realize what you need to do in this industry. Get the quals for the major and get out ASAP. Who cares if you make one or two dollars per hour more here or there. Fly anything and get to a major to start your career. When I started flying a turboprops, I went to one of the worst regionals out there making $12/hour as an FO and then $26/hour as a Captain (ATR). Curious, which regional you ask? Continental Express! Sure, they are a different company now (your welcome, XJT pilots). I got stuck there longer than I wanted (flow through and 9/11), but now I go to upgrade at CAL in December. I recently flew with an EX-B1900 guy doing his IOE on a B767-400. He had no RJ time; he had PIC time. You make fun of Gulfstream guys, but some of them work at majors now. They didn't cross any picket line to get there.

Get the time for the majors and network, nothing else matters.

Good luck to you all. :)

At Least ExpressJet is one of the few regionals that could turn into a big airline. What other regional besides MESA started it's own Branded flying. If it goes well for us we have nothing holding us back from getting larger planes. The majors will always prevent the regionals from using larger planes because of scope. Plus by being dropped from Continental, it opened us up to Delta flying and the ability to control our own future. Plus our bases aren't restricted to EWR, CLE, and IAH - yuck.

Almost all regional's began by doing their own branded flying and moved away since it doesn't work any more. I take my hat off to Indy Air for trying, and acknowledge XJT's model is a little different, but it won't work unless the pax can flow through a network. Good luck, but I'd bet five years from now all XJT's planes have someone else's name on the side.

strange, the airline you were dropped for already had 4 codeshares that it was flying under, and had a bunch of bases all ready.