Ok, its a dead giveaway now
 

My old instructor had me use her pink Hello Kitty calculator on all my checkrides from private to CFI.
There's no better way to relax and laugh a little on a stressful checkride than to look down and see that you're punching in complex weight and balance calculations on big pink buttons with sparkles.

Good luck with the rest of your sim rides. Since I will be doing the same thing soon, I can only imagine that the first few times in the sim I will be consistently 5 miles behind the plane and I will loose even more hair from the top of my head.

If you are meant to be a pilot, at some point everything will all click into place and you will wonder why you worried so much. I think its really a rite of passage in the airline world. Nobody said it was easy.

I'm sure it will straiten a few things out lol.

av8r_2007,

I don't know if XJT is anything like SKYW but what happened in the sim might follow you, by reputation, to IOE. It is not the best thing probably but most instructors give each other the heads up on who is coming to fly with them.

Just my two bits here: study your butt off and get all the stuff down pat. You don't want to get in the real plane right when winter is setting in and not fly well. It really isn't over until you get your one-year probationary PC check. At least it is not here at SKYW.

All the best!

I beg to differ.. have you ever jumpseated on an MD-88? I had a former F-18 guy who told me his legs felt like death after no one warned him about what happens if you dont use the fold out foot rests. I heeded his advice to use them but my legs still fell dead asleep during half the flight! :``T

Actually, the sim intructors here are awesome! I think I was really overwhelmed and had my tunel vision glasses on initially and missed some fundamental knowledge. I am just so glad that my sim intructors were able to catch it before it was too late to retrain. Yesturday's lesson is one of the hardest and I had no trouble at all. It was actually a lot of fun. The only thing messed up was when my partner and I got a pitch trim failure. I was tying to hold the yoke back with all my stregth and with my knees. Little girl arms require quicker reaction in those situations :O

I don't think anyone will be passing along a, "watch out for this one," during my IOE. Though I will be sure and include it in all my briefings, lol.

Ahhhh...the pitch trim runaway...the memories.:D If it makes you feel better, my sim partnet played football in college and was still struggling. Only way to fly the thing was with me doing the throttles and helping to pull on the yoke.

My buddy washed out today here at ASA,we were close from day one, he busted his ass, but jsut couldnt get past the sim I couldnt beleive it when he told me....he had his flows, callouts and profiles down cold, but he just froze when he got into the box, he hadnt gotten through sim lesson 5, they give you 8 for the program but have been giving more if people if need be, its unfortunate,, he really worked hard and had a good attitude, the thing that sucks most is that he didnt resign, it was categorized as a washout....not sure what his plans are now , he packed his stuff at the hotel and drove away this afternoon, its tough cause he was very close, but if they think you wont make it , its a tough reality to face as not passing the training can and will happen to some...

Thanks. You folks proved me wrong and I appreciate it. For months I have been a cynic thinking "Regional pilots eat their dead. THey are in it for themselves." Then you come along with some really inspiring posts and help a "brother " who is stressed out. It's a refreshing change from combative or ocassionally personally demeaning posts. My hat is off to you !

That's a new avatar. I think you are right. My apologies to the young lady and wishing for her success.

One technique that works in any aircraft is a CRM technique for any non precision approach.
The challenge is one of scan. Where to look, etc. I find teaching that most pilots naturally follow all company required calls. It gets pretty quite though below MDA. Try this, have the PM give you a "speed +/-, sinking xxx" Example:
"400ft, +5, sink 850" "300 ft, Minus 8, sink 1000" Do you think you would know what you are doing? What you need to correct? Nice to have the extra data to go along with whatever company/aircraft procedure /technique you are supplied.
How about this, "400 ft, minus 5, sink 300" Probably holding the nose up and not on a proper glidepath. Or, "400 ft, onspeed, sink 750" might be the correct glidepath for your speed, etc. Anyway, this is a suggestion to more fully utilize the PM while you struggle on a non precision approach at MDA and below. It effectively leverages the other pilots scan and gives you useful info when you have a split scan between flight instruments and the runway environment and allows you to make effective corrections..

I purposely avoided this thread for a long time, never opened it until a half hour ago and read the whole thing in one sitting. As a GA pilot about to make the jump to 121, I just didn't want to read about "washing out." At this point, the thread deserves a new title, like "hanging tough." From what I gather, you've pulled yourself back in the running and it's looking good. Congratulations.

Av8r, thank you for opening your heart and soul to us - I'm not saying I don't like to cheer each time someone posts that they've passed an IOE or something, but when I go into class knowing that it's not a guaranteed pass, I'll sure take things more seriously. Also, knowing that you can be behind the 8 ball and still make it - that's a good bit to know as well.

Best of luck as life goes on!

J

Perhaps my favorite thread ever in my reading of APC. To my mind, this thread is what makes APC great. A couple months ago there was a guy that failed some company's ground school. He blamed failed teaching methods, etc...everyone but himself. He was rightfully hammered on by everyone here. The author of this thread came in humility, accepted responsibility, gave circumstances (illness) that never came off as excuses, and asked for help. 10 PAGES of help later, she is still with the airline and working through things. This is why I read this forum a lot, and as crappy as things can sound in the airline biz this is why I am going for a late life career change. You do not find this kind of genuine behaviour in the corporate world - just weasels.

Add up the experience level of all the different responders to this thread - how many hours, types flown, situations faced, etc are represented here and willing to share their knowledge? Pretty cool.

Av8tr, clean out your PMs!

If they told you to use speed hold then they are smoking something or don't fly in real weather any. On a nice smooth day it's all dandy but get in gusting and turbulent conditions speed hold will be tossing people out of their chairs. Personally I use verticle speed mode and look at my ground speed then adjust. Remember PITCH for airspeed and POWER for altitude.

tooo many words.

Guess I should say just put the thrust levers dead center, top of the hump, then set your decent rate. Then just tweak from there.

I prefer to use the VS mode. When you level off at each step down, have you PM set the altitude for the next step down. When you reach the fix, have your PM command VS 1200-1500fpm down. Use that for an initial pitch attitude. Once you get the descent stabilized you can use the TCS button to set the actual VS that made everything work. Works especially well for those steep approaches in Mexico. I gotta agree with Toilet here, anyone who thinks the IAS mode is the best for an approach has spent too much time in the box. About the only time I use IAS mode is during climbs in smooth air or if I need a max rate descent at a specified airspeed ("slow to 210, descent and maintain 2000. Hurry down, you're #1." Get that all the time in Houston going to 27:D)

I agree, what about using V/S:confused: if you dont like it, adjust it or TCS it until you find a V/S you like. The only time I use Speed mode is a climb out, if its smooth, or I hit it when spoilers open and speed is 245 in a decent, it will give you the best rate!! (FYI-- do this and as soon as the ASEL becomes boxed close the spoilers quickly and give the thrust levers a quick bump about half way up then back to idle, the airplane levels itself super smoothly ;)

Thanks! I agree. VS is the better method. Now I know they tell us not to focus on power settings but does anyone have some "suggested" power settings? Remember my PC is in the box not a real plane where density alt or weight really have that much affect.

clean at level flight: 60-55% n2?
level at 180 flaps 9:
1500fpm descent at 180 flaps 9
1500fpm descent slowing to 140 flaps 22 gear down
1500fpm descent at 140 flaps 45 gear down
level at target (135 or so) flaps 45 gear down: 75% n2?

I have been trying my best to catch up but may only have one more shot at this. I am doing my best here to chair fly these approaches so any suggestions or help would be great!

BTW, the PM is clear now :)

Thanks, but you can't use your partner that way. Plus what if they "miss or forget" a call ;P My partner will be the check aiman. The only thing he's going to tell me is pass or fail.

Thanks, it's true life does go on. Plus I know this will sound cheesy, but its not just about us. We have a large responibility to the passengers and crew in the back. I wouldn't want a loved one riding on a plane with a pilot who just squeeked by.

Go to training not just prepared mentally. Make sure your health, finances, familily, etc are in order. A good company like mine will work with you the best they can but there is only so much they can do. Don't think of it as a job offer but a continued interview and you will do fine.

Dude the best advice I can give on any check is talk talk talk.

"Slow correcting, fast correcting, out of this for that, clear this way or that" Get my meaning? As an instructor that is what I teach all the time and it seems to help. Perhaps you already do this, but since I don't know, thought I'd try to lend a hand.

Good luck.

Thanks, I have been told to do this when I get the sink rate message. I saw my partner doing the "correcting" throughout training but that only seemed to point out their errors. You could also tell how anxious they were by the tone of their voice. :o

I am mostly concerned with jocking the thrust around chasing after airspeed. Takes away a lot of my concentration. I think general power settings to shoot for might help.

Definately. Just get the power close to what you think is good you know? Then walk them up or back to make minor corrections. I mean walk them too. Fractions of an inch at a time. Put in lots of power ONLY when absolutely necessary, and then you better be taking it right out again, else ZOOM.

As far as talking goes, yeah it points out your errors, but more importantly it shows your SA that something is wrong, and it gives the evaluator the option to help you if you say something stupid. IE "descending to x altitude" when you should be going to y altitude. Get my drift?

Verbalize everything humanly possible, until it begins to distract yourself that is.

Sorry to hear of the ancient pre Wright brothers asinine mentality <g>. On the line, if briefed, your PM should not forget after a reminder of "whats my speed and sink"
Hate to say it, the Safety folks need to educate the Checkairmen. Cripes , NASA would be fascinated with this neandrathal approach to safety/CRM in your training dept. I work in mine as well as the line with 20 years of mil/121 airline IP exposure. We have many required verbal requirments for safety. Industry standard actually. Oh well, sorry. Use it on the line though! It is smart CRM and what CPT would refuse? Hopefully none. Best of skill. You'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by av8tr_2007 (Post 257332)

Thanks, but you can't use your partner that way. Plus what if they "miss or forget" a call ;P My partner will be the check airman. The only thing he's going to tell me is pass or fail.

---

Only one instructor told us that you can't use CRM. His idea was quickly shot down by the multiple check airmen that followed as the training is for FOs, not captains. "This is an FO check for pilots that are trying to learn CRM, thus, use the PM!"

The first limitation of this aircraft: Pilots: 2 Required.

The check airman for my FOPC was the type that stood two stories tall, walked on water, made tall buildings get out of his way, and you knew he regularly dictated policy to God, yet he made the callouts I requested, specifically the fix plus .2 DME calls on the non-precision approaches. All of the check airmen so far, even the ones considered to be tougher than the others, have been utmost professionals. I'd hire any of 'em in a second if they were to apply and I were hiring instructors again.

Thanks Jed. I meant you can't have your partner callout airspeed/heading deviations like the last guy was talking about.

I will see about the DME though. That would really help. I agree with you about the check airmen. Wish I had them from day one as instructors. Barker was tough but I felt like I was flying with a Capt and not an instructor, very real world. Good learning experience, even though he ATR'ed me :)
Carpet dance tommorow. Very nervous.

how many ATR's is that? I mean whats going on how much time did you have before you went to training?>

I have a hard time believing the company says you can't use CRM. I thought call outs like that were standard, on every approach we make call outs "ref plus 10, sinking 6, on glide" as an example. very helpful in my opinion and i agree with saltydog in what sounds like an archaic mentality. my guess is you havent really even tried it and are just saying you can't do it.

I think whats going on here is when she is being observed they dont want her sim partner to fly the plane for her................if ya know what I mean

what's an ATR?

the most badass Turbo-prop around, well with the exception of the SAAB


ATR Additional Training Required

CRM calls asked for by a a PF of the PM is NOT Flying your airplane. Telling the PF to reduce power, raise the nose, etc would be flying the airplane. Simply providing data is no different than confirming FMS/Altitude inputs, etc.
I contend a bad message being sent by the checkairman/dept. You fly the way you are trained. Negative training follows a crew out to the line.
What is your AOM/FOM required calls at 1000'/500'? Any below MDA?
If not, safety is compromised.

Side Note

If you pull one thrust lever back like your walking them back to half of the width of the top of the other thrust lever then bring back the other one to match that will give you a change of 5% works great for small changes during approaches and steep turns.


.

You do it or have your partner do it until the check airman/instructor stops it. Once on the line, you'll do it too, although a lot less often, like maybe once in a year. . . :rolleyes:

There comes a point when the PM might be making up for the PF's weak skill. Our training department does a good job with what they have to work with. If a crew ends up in a situation where there is an emergency and one pilot is incapacitated you still need to be able to handle the aircraft alone. I have flown with a couple of new pilots recently that I seriously doubt would get the aircraft on the ground safely by themselves even if everything else was working normally. The skill level and experience of some entry level pilots is not what it was during the "abundant pilot" times. I'm sure this will come to pass. For now regional training departments have their hands full. Multiple ATR's, 50-80 hours of IOE. A month of IOE? Come on. I flew with one like that... still couldn't land the plane without being coached, couldn't do a visual... and this is one that made it through. Imagine the ones they let go. It gets old. Sorry I started to vent.