Washing out.
 

This is a bit personal so I appologize.

I know this has probably been covered here before but I am currently hanging on by a string here at training and would like to know. If the worst were to happen and I was sent home, would other company's see that I have washed out? Will it show up on the Pria check even though I havn't been officially hired here yet?

The thing is I got really sick during training. I asked if I could go home and see a doctor. I was told that my health should come first but that if I did decide to that I would be resigning and would have to reapply in a year if I wanted to come back. They also told me that if I did leave that it would show on my record that I didn't finish/washed out and that it could jepordize any furture aviation related jobs.

I decided to stay and push through and have managed to pass everything until recently. I just now busted my 2nd stage check and have a meeting with the head of training. I am so worried and don't know what to do at this point.

These days, a washout won't kill your career - don't worry. If it really comes down to the worst, be up-front and honest at your next interview and don't worry. Best of luck!

What company if you dont mind saying.... I'd say just continue to do your best. If the worst happens.... accept it, and accept responsibility when you interview again and move on.

Whoa.... did you bust a stage check for a second time, or did you bust your second stage check?

RSD..... thats a good question......hadnt looked at it from that angle...

I seriously doubt it will show you washed out if you leave before training is complete. It happens all the time, people get better offers during training and leave before training is complete. Who is to say why you left, however given that you are at the point you are it's a hard call. It may be better that you resign for a "better offer", your reason for leaving is really none of the airlines business. Make this clear to them if need be, maybe even get a letter from an attorney if you think you need too. Not finishing training and "washing out" are two completely different things.

So are you saying you busted stage check #2 or you busted two of them in one training? If you've busted just one stage check keep going till the end. Try and get some extra time in the sims when you can.

i thought if they let you "resign" than it dosn't show up as you washed out.?.? Since he said he passed everything, I think he means the 2nd stage check in the course.

Stumbled upon your thread here... I would be VERY careful on assuming your record would not reflect the training washout. Regardless if you are "employed" or not yet, if you are training under FAR 135/121 and you fail a reportable event it could show up on a PRIA request. AQP programs and straight Appendix F programs will have different issues, bottom line is ask someone, in fact go to a FSDO and run a check on yourself after a while and see.

Like others here have said, be honest and upfront and it should not make much difference in today's entry level job market. Good luck !

I think you should be asking yourself why you really want to work for a company that treats you so poorly.

EDIT: Just read your post in another topic and realized you were at XJT. That sounds very uncharacteristic of the training department. A friend of mine from training also got very ill and had to go home for a couple weeks. They allowed him to return to training and join the class that was 2 weeks behind his. Either the climate in the training department has done a 180 or is there something else we should know?

yeh, that sounds more in lines with trans states hard-balls tactics than expressjet's. Guess there are lil-evil imps at every company though.

My 2 cents is to say do not give up till they make you go home. I have known many people over they years the have washed out of training with regionals and it has been a serious stick in thier spokes. From what i hear it is possible get hired again, but some regionals like skywest, asa, eagle and others will not interview you much less hire you if they know. This can be a very harsh and impersonal industry that way even if it is not your fault. I dont think 135 carriers care nearly as much these days though.

Call the PRIA people. I dont have the number but it has been posted.

It's not the end, but you're going to have a hard time getting hired. A friend that washed out at TSA had one hell of a time finding work last year. He had 135 minimums but nobody would take him. He intereviewed at a number of 121 carriers and Skyway finally offered him a job 6 months after the wash.

Good luck, study your ass off. If it's too late for that, be honest about it. Regardless of PRIA or not, it could come back to haunt you if you lie.

Second one busted. Just over stupid stuff though. I didn't completely understand the flight guidance till now. I am sure I am not the only one since there isn't a whole lot explained in our manuals. I have a meeting with training at four. Real nervous now. Even if they don't send me home, I have to be ready for sim at 2am and I have been up since 10pm last night. The ATR will be difficult if I have to do it at 2am. :eek:

I thought I was allowed 2 ATR's on the sims? Have you known anyone to wash out at this stage?

Well our class was the last. Infact most of the people were canceld or put in a pool. They only kept 8 of us, the smallest in history, becase they had already given us a job offer after the interview. All throughout training they have been telling us that they are raising the bar on us and acting like we weren't really needed. Who knows though.

When I asked if I could go home, there were no other classes scheduled at the time. Now there is one Nov 5 and 12th.

Also, the training emviroment has changed a lot recently. I talked to a lot of upgrades and recurrents who said that HR has been overseeing a lot of stuff. I'm not sure if that is true but I am definately not getting that rumored loving feeling from training right now.

Well, almost four now. Time to go face the music.

Two from my class washed out during the sims. ATRs are not to be taken lightly. I'm not sure who you're talking to in the training department but this sounds like a very unusual way for them to handle this. Are you sure there isn't more to the story?

Best of luck to you. If XJT is where you really want to be, it might be worth trying to get bumped back into one of those Nov. classes.

Back to your original topic, if you had withdrawn from training due to personal issues, that shouldn't show as a failure. I don't know how they show it, but no one would fault you. If you bust out now, it will show up and somewhat hamper your future career. Good luck and don't suck!

I'm in training at ASA and they have told us during the interview that they won't hire anybody who has washed out of another company, and they are also very serious about helping everybody who they hire through training.

I personally wouldn't risk it.

Yep just got done talking to the head of training. According to him there is no sick, emergency,personal, any type of leave, contrary to what we were told in the beginning. There also is no possibility of waiting for the Nov class. Infact, there was a guy waiting before me who had two ATR's and they sent him packing. I had to do a lot of convincing just to be aloud to stay.

I have to be back in the sim at 2am and pass. I don't know how I am going to do it. It is right in between a really long time to kill and too short of a time to sleep. At least I couldn't right now with the amount of caffeine I needed to stay awake for the 4pm meeting after this morning's 2am sim session.

I appreciate all the advice. It looks like once you agree to train you are commited to finishing and passing. This is definately not what I signed up for. Thank g-d for unions, otherwise I don't know how this career would exist.

Advice for those thinking of jumping on the wonderful regional bandwagon, be careful and make sure you are really ready physically, mentally, financially, etc...

Very sad, but I am starting to question if this is the right career for me anymore.

There's really nothing you're going to learn between now and then, but you need the sleep.

Get off the GD computer, go get a half a shot of something and crawl into bed. Set the alarm first. Set three alarms.

Give yourself enough time to wake up, take a relaxing shower, and make it happen. The negative thoughts are gunna kill ya.

Look past the whole ordeal. You'll get to be back in bed by 6am.

Stick it out. I know 2 people who were let go from 121 programs and both were hired within a month or two at other regionals. Just be honest about what happened (they were) and you should have no problem. Especially in this market. If you really want to fly, don't give up. Like one of the earlier posters said, it's not the kiss of death it once was. I personally know someone who washed out at expressjet and now flys for another regional and loves life. MOral of the story: DON'T GIVE UP!

Bass

Great Advice

For those asking if there was more to the story, there is A LOT more to the story. I just got through training here, and I have had nothing but great experiences with all the staff and everyone of my instructors. Everyone in our class who had a POSITIVE attitude towards being here made it through. It just takes hard work, and the right attitude. For those that can't do both, you probably should choose another career.

Go back to Florida.

It seems to be hit or miss. I have no experience with the XJT program and have heard nothing but positives on this board. At the same time, my best friend went through it 6 months ago and described the training department as absolutely horrible for a multitude of reasons (he scored above a 90% on all tests and had zero ATR's in the sim). I have no opinion because I don't work there. I'm simply stating that what I've heard about the training department at XJT ranges from excellent to terrible (much like it does at CHQ).

I've heard the department is changing but that was from my half-arse flight saftey instructor that use to work in it. My friends that are there seemed to have liked it though. I've much worse about other places like Trans states.

If there is a problem in training at XJT I can almost guarantee that is is not with the department. There are not instructors there with a hard on for failing people and have not been since probably 2001 or 2. They are quick to fix problems. Not to say that there aren't sometimes, but the general attitude is to do all possible to help people get through. What good does it do XJT to give a guy several hours in a VERY expensive simulator and send him packing? They don't want to let you go, and if they do......it costs them money.

On a side note, I wish you the best of luck and promise you that if you have a good attitude and bust your butt in the books you'll be in the airplane before you know it. Don't give them a whiff of an attitude because that's the quickest way to get booted.

Hope the stuff I told you about the FGC tonight helps. Good luck.

Your right - I don't know the story, and maybe there is more to it - but what kind of attitude is this? You sure seem a bit harsh on the guy. Maybe there is more going on in his life that causes him to have misgivings about his career choice or what he's dealing with in training. I wonder how you'd feel flying preoccupied with things going on in your personal life, or running on little sleep or a bad meal or missed meal and your crew member basically shut you down or told you to take a hike and let him take care of the plane because you were a little sloppy while having a bad day/week/month. I don't say you have to like the guy but that doesn't mean you need to harbor any ill will or malice toward him like the go back to florida comment. :mad:

Good-Luck Av8tr... I completely agree with Tony williams.. You gotta dig deep and just do it..No Negative thoughts ...

Ditto. Get some rest....Review just before your sim ride.....then go slay that dragon! You'll do fine.

All the best. Blue skies.


atp

One pt121 training failure/washout is not the end of the world however your options will decrease. Second pt121 failure, then you're screwed. That's why it's important for the low time pilots looking to get into regionals to know what they're getting into. Hopefully the thread starter has passed.

I quit CHQ training during the sim (not having busted anything). I later got calls from TSA, SkyWest, and Pinnacle (the only other regionals to which I had applied). [edit: the resume I sent to these companies reflected my time at CHQ] I was totally upfront with my current (cargo) employer about what happened, and they not only didn't care, but were kind enough to check my PRIA paperwork and let me know that it simply said "resigned during training".

If you find yourself choosing between the door and the window, I recommend the door. Hope it doesn't come to that. Good luck.

Times have changed. Work hard, try to pass. Deal with it if you have to leave. Not the end of the world, as the others have said.

If that happens, take a step back, digest what has happened and try to learn from it. That is the key thing.

Most airline training programs follow basically the same pattern, so try to figure out where you had difficulty and apply extra effort there. Find out your strengths and weaknesses.

Anyway, try to make this one happen. That's the best option. But if you have to leave, so be it. Ain't the end of the world. Just pick yourself up and get back on that horse. But maybe figure out why you got off it. That's the key.

What about the retired Marine MA? Is he still there. I heard he failed alot of folks. Don't know if he is still working.

I keep visiting this thread hoping to hear some good news. I'm almost sitting on the edge of my chair. It's like a book that could go either way and I'm wishing so hard for the best!

Don't disagree with many of your points, but your CRM leaves much to be desired. Even positive attitudes and hard work cannot get everyone through. Financial reasons limit decisons on the part of the company. It is a whim in many cases. If they need you on the line and are desperate, you get more opportunities. They are winding things up, projections decreasing, you get less. All with a 'positive attitude' and hard work. You should learn to appreciate the lottery elements of our profession. Anyone can bust any check, depends how hard they squeeze and how you lead the crewmember into the check. A Designee can intimidate or cajole if they so choose. That is my opinion after a combination18 years military/121 instructor experience while also flying the line.

Here is a true pro response. No nonsense, excellent CRM, outstanding CPT skills who is a leader.

... Still there. Mellowed a bit but still a different checkride.

Had him as my instructor for sim training and found him to be a very no non-sense character that will teach you more about flying if you show you are willing to learn. You try to BS him though, you will get on his bad side. And the bad side of ANY Marine is not a warm, fuzzy place.