Originally Posted by HercDriver130 (Post 256552)

anybody using a palm device and the RED BOOK for the palm OS for your trip tracking then download it to your laptop or desk top when you get home....???

Originally Posted by bizzum (Post 256686)

You absolutely can log it. It goes in the SIM column of your logbook. You can use that time for the purpose of a certificate, but it is NOT part of your total time. Do you really want to explain that at an interview?

Originally Posted by VTcharter (Post 256677)

Not sure that I agree with you there.

ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."

Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.

Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."

It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.

Originally Posted by VTcharter (Post 256938)

I believe that it can and should be logged as total time. I have found another reason to support my opinion and that is 61.57...the fact that you may log landings (night and day) for currency using a sim. If I can log takeoffs, landings and instrument time, then I am logging total as well. Anything that is loggable in the logbook, is loggable as total time. It is all aeronautical experience. Then you break it down into its subcategories; ie sim, pic, night, sic, x-c, etc.

Originally Posted by VTcharter (Post 256677)

Not sure that I agree with you there.

ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."

Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.

Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."

It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.

Originally Posted by bizzum (Post 256686)

You absolutely can log it. It goes in the SIM column of your logbook. You can use that time for the purpose of a certificate, but it is NOT part of your total time. Do you really want to explain that at an interview?

Originally Posted by VTcharter (Post 256699)

Not trying to be argumentative, but I just can't find where it says that it cannot be logged as total time. It does say that it may be counted as total experience, ie total time, under part 61 and therefore it is good as total time whether it is for certification or not. It just depends who is looking at the regs and how they want to interpret them. My point is that it is not illegal, just could be interpreted differently depending on who is doing the reg reading. If I was to go to an interview, I would just be sure to have enough flight time outside of the sim to meet the requirements and if they ask why I log it the way that I do, I would simply state the same references that I stated previously. They would either like it or they wouldn't...all I know, is that I would not be wrong, just under a different interpretation. The FAA has looked at my books many times, through type ratings and 142 courses, and never had a problem wth it, but I am sure that someday I will run across someone that does. Guess I already have!

Originally Posted by el jefe (Post 256709)

I agree. But the regs are hard to interpret most of the time :p

I log it as SIM time, but do not include it in FLIGHT time totals.

Unless the SIM has wings, an engine and I am not touching the ground, I don't consider it FLIGHT time.

Originally Posted by VTcharter (Post 256938)

I believe that it can and should be logged as total time. I have found another reason to support my opinion and that is 61.57...the fact that you may log landings (night and day) for currency using a sim. If I can log takeoffs, landings and instrument time, then I am logging total as well. Anything that is loggable in the logbook, is loggable as total time. It is all aeronautical experience. Then you break it down into its subcategories; ie sim, pic, night, sic, x-c, etc.

Originally Posted by Pilot41 (Post 257116)

Better not try to use it toward Total Time for an interview.

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy (Post 257122)

Oh my gawwwwd.... You guys are part 121 pilots? Its a few drops in the ocean. Do you really think that a few hours in the sim every 6 months REALLY matters? If you are that hard up for time, pick up a day trip or something. No way anyone can dispute THAT as flight time:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Pilot41 (Post 257116)

Better not try to use it toward Total Time for an interview.