Republic buying compass?
 

discuss amongst yourselves

crazier things have happened! BB has had some subtle prophecies in some of his weekly sermons! I wouldnt doubt to see it happen!

Not going to happen. Why would they buy compass and how considering they were just created. If RAH is going to pick up another certificate I'll lay my money on Comair since they already own like 91million worth of them.

"Republic Airways is the largest operator of the E-Jet in the world: 95 EMB170/175s in its fleet and delivery of 26 EMB175s scheduled by the end of 2008"

This would be a good way to get more "E" acft, delivery positions and crews. NWA then exercises options on CRJ900s and expands Mesaba. Both get standardized fleet savings, increased capacity and less headaches.

would seem the only way that makes since though would be if along with the purchase of compass they got a long term deal out of NWA to utilize those aircraft.

Seems pretty far fetched but ya just never know in this crazy bizness.

This has been rumored since Compass was announced...

One word - MidAtlantic.

These two airlines have different unions. Not sure how that would play out. NWA flow through and other issues would make this interesting.

Unfortunately, there is a precedent for the union acquisition. Look at what happened to Shuttle America.

USAirways needed to sell off MidAtlantic to stay liquid and hold on long enough to be bought out.
NWA, on the other hand, just posted a huge profit and is far from having a liquidity crisis. There are also ALPA contract restrictions that prevent NWA from selling Compass until NWA has 10 of a new type of narrowbody aircraft on the property (they haven't even placed an order yet). Certainly, under the right circumstances, it wouldn't be impossible for those restrictions to go away under a new TA, but I see no reason to think that will happen in the current business environment.
NWA does not need the cash in the near term, and since Compass currently has only 5 or 6 aircraft, but another 30 on the way, it would make little sense for NWA to sell off Compass now, in it's infancy, when they would be able to get far more money selling it as a mature operation.
Also, when the time does come to sell I'm not so sure NWA will be interested in selling the operation as a whole to another carrier, when they have done so well in the past selling regionals through IPOs. E-jets are becoming very popular, and Compass stands to be the only real competition to Republic in the US regional E-jet market. I'm sure NWA knows that, and they're probably willing to bet that Wall Street will notice too.
So, basically, Republic might want to buy Compass, but I seriously doubt Compass is for sale.

This has happened before a la MidAtlantic, however I don't see it happening in the near term with Compass. While they may fly the same aircraft, they most certainly are not direct competition for RAH. Compass is strictly an NWA venture and I don't think you're going to see an NWA subsidiary start bidding on RAH's E-jet flying for DAL, UAL, Frontier, or US Air. RAH has no ties to NWA and I haven't even heard the faintest rumor of even trying to get in the door with those guys.

Except for the Compass aircraft, BB pretty much has the options for any other U.S. bound 170/175's locked up through 2009...and as I said before, they're not really direct competition for us. Especially since we can't really accept airframes at any rate faster than we already are.

Also, BB wouldn't move on Compass until they had all their aircraft in place. Plus NWA would have to purchase 10 new airframes. I wouldn't put it past him, but I also wouldn't hold my breath since it would be years before anything would come down the pipe.

Finally, BB is not a fan of consolidating for the heck of it. He's stated several times that from this point forward the company plan is more "home-grown" growth of the business rather than merging with other companies just to get bigger. We've got long term contracts in place with UAL, DAL, US, CAL, and Frontier. The only thing coming up close to this decade is the old TWA/AA flying and God only knows where that's going to go. I don't think there's any interest in renewing since the contract is just a carryover from the TWA days and BB has said numerous times he wants to shift towards competing on the "larger regional" market. The Delta 135's are already gone essentially and I think the AA 140's are next. If was to predict anything, they'll build up the UAL and DAL flying with more 170/175's and move the exsisting 145's on those two codeshares over to CAL to start replacing the CRJ.

compass can be sold as soon as it hits 11 aircraft, which is approaching rapidly. I wonder if Uncle Phil and the PInnacle Corp. would buy Compass

You and Toiletduck need a history lesson then.

BB is the one who built Messaba. Last I heard his Father in law was still on the Board of Directors at NWA, he owns the largest Pepsi distributorship in the Midwest.
I would call those "ties" to NWA.

The E170 hanger in SDF also raises eyebrows.

No, it can't. That seems to be a common misunderstanding on here. I'll see if I can find the contract verbage, but what the contract states is that SJ (Compass) cannot be sold until NWA recieves 10 aircraft of a new narrobody (dc-9 replacement type) aircraft. That "10 aircraft" magic number has nothing to do with Compass' aircraft, so Compass could have 75 planes, and if NW still hasn't bought 10 of a new A/C type, NW cannot sell.

Actually, the Compass charter does not prevent it from seeking flying with other carriers and, well beyond just rumors, Compass has publicly stated that it fully intends to persue opportunities to diversify it's flying, starting with a bid for Delta flying in the not-to-distant future. It is true that Compass is an NWA venture, but NWA created the company to be an entrant into the new large-rj market, and to directly compete with other E-jet and CRJ-900 carriers for flying.
Compass, like RAH and so many other regionals, is essentially a wet-lease company, and since all Compass' profit goes to NWA, there is no reason for Northwest to prevent it from seeking outside business. It's essentially the same as what Delta has done with DGS, selling it's services for profit to other carriers, even carriers that compete directly with Delta.

The big difference between Compass and Midatlantic is Compass actually has an operating certificate. MDA was operating on usair's and was more of an aircraft transaction. That on top of NWA likes to keep their regionals on a short leash, and I don't think RAH's take over the world attitude really fits that plan.

I still think we'll be flying red tails in 3-5 years when Compass is stood up. Standard NWA wholly owned cycle. Also if they become a threat(other codeshare rumors), I can see BB buying them to get them out of the way.

I think the RAH ego is out of control. You guys think you can buy whatever you want. You guys need to stop drinking BB flavored beverages and worry about staffing what you have.

I wouldn't call those ties. Each his own though. Why would the hanger is SDF raise eyebrows that's what compass flies.

The fact that "This has been rumored for a long time" doesn't build any credibility. The writing is on the wall. If RAH is going to pick up someone the best bet is Comair. They own $91mil of them already. Probably an even higher probability they'll just say they are going to purchase someone as our contract negotiations nears to keep the pilot group at bay.

How does RAH own $91M of Comair?

Why would RAH want a bunch of old CRJs that aren't compatible with their current fleet outside of the 20ish CRJs flying for CAL?

Besides, the one thing RAH pilots have is a great scope clause and senior members of the pilot group vividly remember the Republic Airlines 1 struggle during the 2003 negotiations.

Everything is for sale and RAH has a lot of money available. I don't think any of us want them to purchase anyone else though.

Never said I thought it was a good idea. Talk to my management about staffing the operation. Everyone has a staffing problem these days. Some are just on the upside of the curve. My assumption would be that the Compass staff would come with the aircraft for the most part.

You asked that same question before to someone and here was their reply.Plus with talks of Delta doing a merger, again, they might try and off load Comair in the deal. I only refered to them as RAH casually because Wexford/Republic are two halves of the same brain. BB has a habit of really taking it to someone when they are down on their luck. Take a look at the US Airways deal.

You still haven't explained how RAH getting a $91m claim for DAL surrendering RAH shares during their bankruptcy equates to "owning $91M worth of Comair."

That's right, because it doesn't. At least not directly...

It doesn't make financial sense to me (admittedly not an accountant) for RAH to purchase Comair. Why buy a company with a largely bitter, militant pilot group that has a mostly old, dissimilar fleet from your own? Of course the CHQ CRJs could be shifted to Comair for DCI flying and CHQ/DCI 145s could be shifted to CAL...but that'd create a shiatstorm of untold magnitude across the board.

If I'm not mistaken, Wexford has or is in the process of divesting itself of RAH shares. That certainly doesn't mean they wouldn't provide $$$ for a future deal, however...

You might not be reading it right. Basically RAH took over $91mil of Comairs debt in exchange for Delta releasing some of RAHs stock ergo RAH now has a $91mil stake in Comair.

Same thing China is doing to the US which is another reason the dollar has been diving down. There are a multitude of reasons why it's benificial to own buy them. It has nothing to do with the pilot group. Nothing at all. RAH could simply purchase comair then fire them all if they wanted to. It's happened before. Or they could purchase a ticket for the pilot group to help with staffing issues on the boat load of 170/175s they'll be getting in. That's happened before too.

Remember this is all speculation based on a few facts out there. But the few facts here outweigh the world of speculation.

There's no such thing as a fact on this board. Everything that gets put up here is a giant friggin' rumor. If I bet on half the stuff I read here, I'd be dirt poor. This is a great place to come to complain about everyone else's company but you're own.

This comment ALONE proves just how ignorant of the collective bargaining process you truly are.

I'm done with you...

Or how uneducated you are on the subject. Perhaps you should read about what happened to the Shuttle guys when they were purchased. Not saying it would happen as the industry would have to be on one horrible last leg for it to get there just saying the pilot group of another airline isn't a hurdle for management. Glad you're done. Get's old posting facts like the company stake in another company and somehow you still manage to try and argue it lol.

Eh, what the hell...what's one more.

1. Shuttle guys didn't get FIRED. I was much closer to RAH at the time of that integration than you were, believe me.

2. You still haven't made the connection between RAH's BK stake in Delta and owning $91m of Comair. None of the "facts" you have posted support such an assertion, nor do any of the SEC releases I have read over that time say anything about RAH assuming Comair's debt.

Here is the 8-K RJET filed on 14 March:
Don't see anything about Comair or RJ-related debt in there...


As Stark would say, SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYAAAAAAAAAA

Oh please Please PLEASE PLEEEEEZE buy MAG. PLEEEEZZZZE!!!
:D

edit:
I promise PROMISE I will behave. YAH BAYBE!!! YA!!! So naughty!!! OH BEHAVE!
:D:D

Dude, you lost me a looooooooooong time ago when you were talking about how we somehow own $91 million worth of Comair. We don't have anything to do with that, and neither did that $91 million claim. Now the Shuttle thing? The Shuttle MERGER didn't happen anywhere close to what you're describing above. You need to reread OUR contract under the "Scope" part and see why RAH cannot just buy Comair and fire their pilots.

You are a Hater.

Not a hater, just a frustrated commuter that hears alot of ridiculous and unfounded rumors twice every week(the most common rumors and misconceptions are: 1. We are buying... 2. We are getting 190's and 3. We're more like mainline than a regional, why don't you work here?). And in your defense, most of this flub is coming from the flight attendants, but I've heard enough from the front too. It all started when one of your brand new fo's asked me a while ago why I wasted my time flying a turboprop.....but that's a different story for another time.

Never hold a pilot group responsible for what their F/A's say.

I hate to break it to ya, but you're gonna get the same kinda thing at every airline you commute on. I know I do.

commute with some mainline guys..... some will treat you like the dirt on the bottom of their shoe. NOT all... not MOST... but enough to make it unpleasant.

This is all pure speculation but I do think it is very plausible for NWA to sell Compass especially if NWA can get the price it wants NOW instead of 2 years from now. Plus, BB will get his foot in the door with NWA business.

Compass is poorly managed and NWA management wants to sell it off soon. Compass was a NWA pilot project. NWA management did not want it in the first place.

It is unlikely that RAH will buy Comair because BB is a beancounter and it makes no sense financially to purchase Comair and be stuck with a bunch of CRJ 200s which are on their way out.

Details, please...

go checkout Compass threads and you will see.

Well, I started at Compass yesterday. It is not for sale, and it wont be for at least 5 years. They have ordered their own sim to be place in MSP. Delivery in 2009. Y'all's boy BB does not get along with NWA, as he left on bad terms. Sorry to pee in your cheerios on a Sat morning, but it is time to put this idiotic rumor to rest. And your "poorly managed" comment has been resolved from what I understand.

Good luck to ya at Compass because you are going to need it by all accounts. BB is not our boy and BoilerUp and I did not start this rumor. Nonetheless, it is very plausible. If you have any experience with NWA you would not think this is funny.