What regional is best?
 

What regional is the best to work for? Why do you think it is the best to work for?

I heard AWAC, or Air Wisconsin was the best. I believe they are the highest paid in the regional industry. I think it is only 3yrs upgrade time

The one that hires you :) Seriously having flown for a "regional" for the last 6 years they are all about the same. Sure some have better pay, work rules, pass benefits, management/pilot relations,etc, but overall it's still a regional. I'll give you my breakdown.


Top Tier:
Comair
Express Jet
Skywest
Horizon
Air Wisconsin

Mid Tier:
ASA
Mesaba
Eagle
Chautauqua
Independence
Pinnacle
Mid Atlantic
PSA
Piedmont
Skyway
Trans States
Mesa

Lower Tier
Colgan
Great Lakes
Commute Air
Gulfstream


Just my opinon

I wouldn't know but the word is that Horizon is the best to work for and some are staying there instead of moving on. To the poster above, could you please say how you came to those Tier line-ups?

AWAC pilots took concessions last year to better compete with Mesa/Chautauqua/insert carrier here. IN doing so, it erased compensation and work rule aspects of the contract.

Also, the old bases closed down and completely moved to the other coast.

In doing so, very senior people (5, 10, 15, 20 year guys) are leaving in droves, resulting in a severe shortage of pilots, especially captains, and an eroding work environment. Talking to CA's that were here 5 years ago they say the place has just totally gone down the tubes. It is no longer the Air Wisconsin that everybody knows it as.

That being said, with the projected hiring of 300 pilots next year, upgrades will probably come down to the 20-24 month time period. People that aren't even finished training are awarded line holder positions. And all this while losing a net of about 16 BAe-146's (they will totally disappear). That's a lot of attrition!

Most lines have 12 days off. Yep. Minimum guarantee. Some are up to 14, but that is rare. The trips themselves are not commutable. You will be at home, if you commute, around 4-6 days a month. Hardly exciting. I've flown everyday except 2 on my reserve days so far.

fosters

Just my observations over the years having had friends fly for just about every regional out there. There are some I rated in the "Mid Tier" which are quite close to a "Top Tier" airline, just as there are those in the "Mid Tier" who are close to the "Lower Tier".

As a previous poster mentioned, the benefits and work rules of the Top Tier regionals are slowly going away as they have to compete with those who have lower costs to secure flying, i.e. Air Wisconsin. Comair stands to lose pay and benefits as they are tied to the Delta BK proceedings.

regionals / pay / benefits
 

Thanks for your insights...I think we can all agree the industry (except the cargo operators) seem to be sliding down in pay / benefits...

Is this a normal adjustment or a devaluation of pilots worth?

Pilots are not alone in this - most of corporate america is cutting pay / benefits to stay competitive...Unless you are management - it seems there is no end / limit to the size of golden parachutes...


I'm considering a aviation career after my military career. I have already decided to pass on pax carriers and stick to cargo.


-LA

I am not more in the know than you, but I think the industry goes through cycles where it is up and then down. I don't know if this will continue, improve, or stay where it is now; but hopefully there will be a slow improvement.

You are correct in that this is happening to more than the airline industry. My family has experienced this on a few occasions over the last few years, and nobody in my family is in the aviation field. With the economy, numerous industries are laying off, cutting pay, and benefits. Pilots are not alone, despite what they may think.

I really think that it's a personal decision as to which regional is "best", based on a number of variables. I firmly believe that not having to commute makes ALL the difference in the job.

For instance, I met up with a Captain from Air Wisconsin on a crew van in PHL, and he had been based in Denver for practically the entirety of his career at AWAC. Being from Seattle, he still had to commute, but it was, in his own words, "tolerable". Now, Denver has closed (or greatly reduced?) and he's in Philly, and has literally a cross-country commute. He mentioned he had put in his notice 4 days prior due to this unfortunate change.

Another example...I average around 13-14 days off a bi period, yet at least 4 of those days are spent doing the commuting "process". So, in essence, I average 8-10 days off (max) at "home". If I were to live in base, ALL of my days off would be at "home". As well, I average 4-5 nights spent in hotels on my own dime when I have to commute in the night before a trip, or can't get out in time when released on the final day of a trip. For those living in base, not only do they have more time at home, but get to avoid the expense of hotel stays or a crashpad. $200+ a month in housing for your commute adds up as well.

Give a few bucks an hour difference, all pay at the regional level is consistent (and low at that). Most have block-or-better, and somewhat similiar work rules. To me, it's a comparison of "apples to apples". Obviously, upgrade time is factored in as well, yet that's extremely subjective and fluctuates often. Therefore, it's usually not a wise move to base one's decision strictly on upgrade potential.

And just when you think you're sitting pretty, living in base, you're displaced or your base is reduced, and suddenly you have to commute. So your decision to go to such-and-such regional backfires.

...what was my point again?? :confused:

Actually, I'm not so sure about those "tiers". A lot of those upper and middle tier carriers are furloughing now. Independence Air, for example, is a pretty bad place to be if you have less than 8 or 9 years of seniority, and nobody with less than 4 or 5 years even has a job. I work for one of the "lower tier" carriers, make over $20 an hour as a first year fo, average 14-15 days off and 80-85 hours a month and am scheduled to upgrade before I'll ever have to go to recurrent. I would be very wary of advice that tends to direct you toward carriers based on size or number of rjs, or that are entirely based on someone's opinion. Growth at a lot of the big RJ companies, which once had 2 year upgrades, has slowed or even stopped. A lot of them are furloughing. Amongst the regionals that are hiring, look at why they are hiring. Some are only replacing attrition, others are staffing for growth, I would look at those first. Many of those "upper tier" carriers do have work rules and pay that are better than the others. If you want to be a career RJ pilot, put those kinds of carriers at the top of your list. But if you are more interested in what your career is going to look like when you are in your fifties, it might be wise to put less emphasis on that and go to an airline that will make you a captain quicker. All the majors want turbine PIC time(and turboprops count), 5 years in the right seat of a CRJ might as well be 5 years driving a delivery van if you are looking to fly bigger equipment. Look before you leap.

hey flaps 9!!!
Top Tier:
Comair
Express Jet
Skywest
Horizon
Air Wisconsin

Are you kidding me Comair in the top tier!!! Anything owned by Delta is not "Top Tier" They are cutting Comair flights and cutting pilot jobs they are not a top tier airline. Mid tier yes

I would think ASA is top tier, or maybe just top middle tier.

I second that...also, their professionalism ain't that great either - just my 2 cents. (not as a line holder, as a paying customer)

I second that...also, their professionalism ain't that great either - just my 2 cents. (not as a line holder, as a paying customer)

D

Until they take concessions, Comair's contract places them at the top of the regional food chain. Of course cuts are just around the corner, but until then, they lead the pack.

I agree! they are not listed in order, just by group as I see it.

There are 3 criteria you should use in selecting the appropriate regional carrier. Surprisingly, they have nothing to do with where their bases are, what the pay is, how much perdiem is, or how many nights you will be home.

Here they are in order:

1) How quickly you can upgrade and get out and get your real job.

2) How quickly you can upgrade and get out and get your real job.

3) How quickly you can upgrade and get out and get your real job.

Hopefully I have made my point. I NEVER thought of going to Mesa in the beginning. I would probably go there knowing what I know today. So will people that have made it. Someday you will have to explain to your child, why you didn't take the fast track to get your final job. There are no contract provisions at the regional level that are significant enough to warrant your consideration, & that could lengthen your time at this level.

Space

Would that put Colgan in the top tier then? :D

I would say yes. I interviewed with them, and they said they have an interview guarentee with CAL and people have been leaving Colgan with 3-4yrs 1000+ PIC and going to the 737-800, 757, and even the 767. They seem like they encourage people to move on and go on to bigger and better things. Probably would have been a good job. They are hiring for all Saabs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You believed them?!?!?!?!?! Were you born yesterday? They say this so that they can lure people into their crappy company.

The 3-4 years with turbine PIC part is correct. However, the only company that had a flow through to CAL was COEX, now known as ExpressJet. That agreement, however, is now void.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few colganites were hired at CAL, but they are hiring from my company as well, and from many others.

I personally would rather spend the 3-4 years of my life as an FO in a jet, making more per hour than a turboprop captain makes, then work at colgan for four years. I just couldn't imagine that!!

fosters

Actually, I am young and kinda gullable so yes I did believe them. Ha Ha thats pretty funny. I do agree would rather fly the jet than then T-prop and I do have app with AWAC which is where I do believe you work? AWAC sounds really good but, I'll take what I can get.

Colgan doesn't neccesarilly have a 'flow through" program with CAL. They call it "preferential hiring." That doesn't necesarily mean a gaurenteed job either. You have to have what it takes, just like every other Joe Shmoe. Although, a handfull of people from Colgan just got hired into the 757 class within the past month or so. That is from an inside source.

Although, I do agree with Fosters. I would much rather fly an RJ for 3 or 4 years before upgrade, than upgrade in anywhere from 6-12 months. The money is much better, even as a 3rd and 4th year FO flying a Jet, as to a T-prop captain.

If you are young, like myself, it isn't going to kill you to sit right seat for a few years until upgrade. That is my opinion. I have a lot of college friends who are flying for various Regionals, and they say sitting right seat for a few extra years isn't all that bad. You are still flying...jet equipment...and its still fun. I guess it also depends on your personality too...

Anyways, that's my two cents. Keep the blue side up - and happy landings!

D

Is it possible this is a trick question:eek:
I would say "best regional" is an oxymoron:confused:

Wow!! Thats a hell of a breakdown (haha). You obviously did your homework. Good Luck in the future.

Is that what you really considre the best airline?? Pay?? Wow, good luck in your career. Have fun!

My good buddy has a letter of rec from the director of flight ops at CAL. Would that be considered "preferential hiring"? You wanna know what he told my friend? DON'T FLY A TURBOPROP! Yep! Get into a jet ASAP!

Take a step back and realize that odds are some of those colganites will get picked up other places. I saw a post a few months back that listed the guys in one of CAL's new hire classes - the two colgan guys had 5000+ TT. Even flying 1000/hrs year, you're talking 4 years or so at colgan. Ouch.

Don't get me wrong, it is a great place for the 500TT guy. But that's about it.

Right on Fosters. Couldn't agree with you more. Where you workin - if ya don't mind me asking?

D

I work for AWAC.

Fosters,

How is it there? I plan to put in my resume in June after graduation.

D

And you'll be the first one complaining that you can't get a good job ( due to lack of PIC Turbine).

Everyone I know that has a job worth having these days did not think the way you do. It was upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. But then again, I am happy there are people that think the way you do, because that leaves the good jobs to my friends and fiancee.

Funny you mention that. CAL has hired people directly from the right seat here at AWAC recently. I have connections to a 727 freight outfit that doesn't even care if I have PIC time. There are options even if I don't upgrade in 2-2.5 years (which is what upgrade is currently doing).

They came up in the world of 3000TT minimums for regionals, and 6 month upgrades on the Jetstream. The current environment is vastly different. Where are you going to go? Half the legacies are bankrupt, with the other half barely hanging on for dear life. There is fierce competition right now for the heavy freight gigs and the few pax airlines.

Don't get me wrong, I agree about getting PIC turbine ASAP. However, about 6 months ago I had a big choice - I used to instruct for Mesa at their airline training program. I could've requested the 1900, with an upgrade of around 3-6 months. When I thought about it, I would rather sit right seat making decent $$ (after first year) with half the month off than live in South Dakota or other similar places to tough it out on the hopes that I might catch a break. I also had a choice of whether to go fly cargo in the west in a shorts. Again, I valued my QOL over the perceived gains of having turbine PIC. If the majors were hiring like crazy (or I thought in the near future hiring would pick up) I obviously would think different...

If you have connections to a carrier that requires PIC time, then by all means go someplace to get 'er done and over with and meet the mins. Me, on the other hand, have no connections and as such it wouldn't help me except make my life MISERABLE living in podunk South Dakota (or similar base that the newbies get).

That is true. I can tell you I have over 1000 PIC turbine in a King Air (almost same as a 1900) and it isn't helping me even get an interview so I say to those people that are only worried about the PIC time, look at all the options not only the pic time. IF ALL other options are equal then yes take the PIC option. Otherwise remeber that some of those guys out there have minimum weight requirements too and king airs and 1900's and such don't meet most of those limits. Just some food for thought.

XtremeF150

Ok, I see your point. By all means, good luck man/woman.

Do regionals ever make exceptions to their hour requirements?

lets say they want 1000tt 100pic
what if you have 1200 tt and 80pic or 800tt with 450 of it pic?

Aspiring
 

Yes, they definately do. Especially if you have some connections. Unfotunately I have none of those anywhere I want to work right now. However to answer the question yes put the AP in and se what happens.
If you don't here from them by the time you have time then update the application.
XtremeF150

f150 sign on aim or unblock pm's stud.

Its WHO you know, not WHAT you know, to get hired. Money aside...it's always good to get lots of experience in the right seat before moving up. And in terms of the tier...very suprised to see that you think Colgan is a low tier. I mean home everynight to some people is awsome, the pay isn't bad, schedules aren't horrid from what I've heard, upgrade time in the 1900 is about 1 year, and the F/A's are cute, lol.

Thread revival!!

Anyone have any thoughts what the updated list for 2011 would look like??

Top tier, middle tier, and low tier.

:D

Non of them!! ;)

Right!!!:rolleyes: