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Originally Posted by Jetrecruiter
(Post 275063)
Thanks to President Regan ....your day in court will mean fighting the RLA will be an unfruitful event. Just ask a few ATC controllers who striked in the 80's.
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Texaspilot76 -
In light of the fact that you may be fairly new to the industry I will attempt to cut you some slack. The notion that a strike does not affect you is ludicrous. Look at what happened to Comair after the strike. They completely paralyzed Delta at CVG and MCO. One of the fallouts from the strike was that Delta along with nearly every other major airline diversified their regional fleets. This meant instead of one or two regionals serving an airline you have multiple regionals performing the flying. Does that impact you? Absolutely. Management at every regional is feeling the squeeze because of the highly competitive marketplace right now. "Comair you won't operate the RJ for x amount of dollars then Pinnacle will. Or maybe Skywest. How about Expressjet?" Want to negotiate a raise in a new contract? Ask ASA, Pinnacle, Comair, anyone post 9/11 how easy that is. The Comair strike set a president and was a benchmark contract that they hoped other regionals would follow. Instead no one got close. 9/11 hit and they were affected like everyone else. As DAL now had multiple regionals at every hub there was no longer leverage in negotiations. No regional has it anymore. So yes, that strike still impacts you nearly seven years after it happened. When a strike happens its not an 8th grade school yard fight. You are literally putting your financial security, job security and well being at risk. You are betting that management and the union will come to an agreement before the company is dissolved. If there is no agreement, ask the Eastern guys how hard it was to find a job following the demise. Many of them never were able to secure employment as a pilot again. By authorizing a strike, you are letting the union know you stand behind them should they call on you to withdraw your services. You are telling management that you would rather risk everything than work under your current agreement and working conditions. A strike is the most powerful tool a union has but it should only be used as a last resort. Truthfully, a strike indicates that both sides failed in their duties to negotiate a contract. The Comair strike succeeded because the pilot group went 89 days with no scabs. There was total solidarity among the group. I'm not sure if that would be repeated today. I reference your remarks about how it doesn't affect you. No offense but that is the mantra of the "me" Y generation. Only looking out for number one. As a result, since most regionals are now comprised of the Ys, they will have a harder time motivating everyone to stay the course for the union not the individual. Time will tell. |
[quote=texaspilot76;274994]
I could care less if Pinnacle strikes or not. I don't work there, it has no effect on me whatsoever./quote] Whoa there, cowboy! Whether Pinnacle pilots go on strike and what kind of settlement they get affects EVERY regional pilot. Pinnacle currently has some of the lowest FO wages of any regional. If 9E pilots can succeed in getting a better-than-average or industry-leading contract, they will be doing their part and more to raise the bar for ALL regional pilots. That's why they have my wholehearted support and should have everyone's. You said, "I would never belittle you despite that I may not share your beliefs." Sorry, but by saying you don't care if PCL strikes or not, you ARE belittling your Pinnacle brethren, and helping degrade the entire profession. Ask some of your more experienced peers about the Comair strike. They stood up for the entire profession. Unfortunately, many of their gains were wiped out after 9/11. But they took a stand, and all regional pilots benefited. |
Originally Posted by Flatspin
(Post 275055)
Still...people go there and we end up with jackasses flying 90 seat equipment for sixty grand a year(pinnacle, mesa) allowing the mainline to reduce jobs, completely screwing every other pilot out there out of a decent living wage. What was the profession paying for 90 seats 15 years ago? How will this trend end? Same wages as that of a bus or truck driver? Good luck with the second job.
i don't consider the people i fly with to be jackasses. we don't have payrates for the 90 seater yet because we didn't take managements offer. so a arbitrator will decide the pay rates for us. hopefully he isn't already in bed with management and we might actually get a fair shake. sorry you got terminated, hopefully things will work out better in your second job. |
Originally Posted by Jetrecruiter
(Post 275063)
Thanks to President Regan ....your day in court will fighting the RLA will be an unfruitful event. Just ask a few ATC controllers who striked in the 80's.
"Aircraft calling DCA N_A_T_I_O_N_A_L Tower, cleared to land runway 01..." |
Originally Posted by Flatspin
(Post 275055)
The average person only works for Pinch a nickle for maybe 4 years. The goal is to build time and get the hell out. People who go there knowing exactly what they are getting into. Why not just work for a better place and let the company sink.
Still...people go there and we end up with jackasses flying 90 seat equipment for sixty grand a year(pinnacle, mesa) allowing the mainline to reduce jobs, completely screwing every other pilot out there out of a decent living wage. What was the profession paying for 90 seats 15 years ago? How will this trend end? Same wages as that of a bus or truck driver? Good luck with the second job. What exactly is the Strike for anyway? Anything specific? 3 dollars more per hour? Good luck!! FYI the Railway Labor Act is the exact reason we are not allowed overtime pay. Jackasses? Resorting to name calling is real professional... Remember that not only Pinnacle but the majority of regionals are flying 700/900s and other main line type aircraft. Mesaba, Compass, ASA etc. to name a few. As unpopular as this comment is going to be, let us not forget who originally gave up the scope on the RJs in the first place. At Pinnacle, we do not have a pay rate for the 900 yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages. We do not have a contract yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages, work rules etc. We are willing to strike in order to achieve our goals. And FYI, many of the pilots whose commute would be made much easier by being based in ATL (900 flying) did not and will not bid that flying until we have an acceptable pay scale and/or contract. We are trying our best to do our part to raise the bar. What we need in this industry at this critical time is more solidarity and less finger pointing / infighting. Best, Wolf |
Originally Posted by wolf
(Post 275273)
Jackasses? Resorting to name calling is real professional... Remember that not only Pinnacle but the majority of regionals are flying 700/900s and other main line type aircraft. Mesaba, Compass, ASA etc. to name a few. As unpopular as this comment is going to be, let us not forget who originally gave up the scope on the RJs in the first place.
At Pinnacle, we do not have a pay rate for the 900 yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages. We do not have a contract yet because we refused to accept sub standard wages, work rules etc. We are willing to strike in order to achieve our goals. And FYI, many of the pilots whose commute would be made much easier by being based in ATL (900 flying) did not and will not bid that flying until we have an acceptable pay scale and/or contract. We are trying our best to do our part to raise the bar. What we need in this industry at this critical time is more solidarity and less finger pointing / infighting. Best, Wolf |
I've read a bit on other threads about what would happen to a new-hire in the case of a strike, but nothing very well pulled together. Can someone shine some light on this...? I'm planning on applying this week after I get my ATP written knocked out (Btw- why is 9E still requiring this to apply...most others have dropped it), but the whole strike possibility makes me a bit nervous.
Hopefully if I would get hired and a strike happens, I would be rehired into a industry leading contract...right guys? Good Luck for all who are presently there, stick it out for the good of the industry. |
Originally Posted by FltTest
(Post 276111)
I've read a bit on other threads about what would happen to a new-hire in the case of a strike, but nothing very well pulled together...
I thought my post were reasonably "well pulled together" but perhaps not.:( Just kidding... Read through these and some of the other posts on the threads and let us know if you need any more info. Good luck.
Originally Posted by wolf
(Post 265993)
As mentioned previously, ALPA Pinnacle MEC has clearly stated that in the event of legal self help (a strike) probationary members who are taken hostage (threatened with or terminated) will be reinstated before we return to work. If a strike should be necessary, we will not return to work until all probationary members who have been taken hostage are reinstated.
As for training during a possible strike, continue your training and do your check ride. There is absolutely no reason to not complete the training you have worked so hard for. However that's where it stops. As soon as you operate a 121 revenue flight during a strike you cross the line. In other words, should you fly IOE during a strike you are crossing the line. In all reality, you probably wouldn't have a choice since I seriously doubt that there are many scab orientated check airmen at 9E. To those in training and still on probation, please remember that should you cross the line, you are making a huge and irreversible decision that WILL affect your LONG TERM career goals. That is not a threat but a simple statement of fact. Many of us came to 9E after the contract became amendable. I for one made the decision even before I interviewed as to what my actions would be in the event of a strike. Simply stated, it is not worth putting your entire career in jeopardy by crossing the line to achieve short sighted objectives.
Originally Posted by wolf
(Post 256002)
I'm not quite sure what you are asking. There is no requirement to take part in picketing or any other ALPA organized activity whilst on probation (or even after probation for that matter). In fact while you are on probation you are strongly discouraged from picketing although you could assist in a less conspicuous manner behind the scenes if you wish. Probation is your first 365 days from the first day you attended ground school. During your probationary period, there is very little ALPA can do to protect you should the company decide to terminate your employment. However as I mentioned in my earlier post, the union has indicated that if the company wrongly terminates probationary pilots during a strike, we will remain on strike until their employment is reinstated.
If you are asking about crossing a picket line to provide your services to the company during a strike then the unequivocal answer is yes, that makes you a scab. Probationary pilot or not, going to work while your fellow pilots are on strike would make you a scab. As other posters have mentioned, the RLA makes it very difficult for pilots to strike. Undermining the efforts of your fellow pilots to achieve a fair contract would not be looked upon kindly. If you are harboring any doubts at all as to what choice you would make if confronted by a strike while still on probation, please do not even consider coming to 9E until this matter is resolved.
Originally Posted by wolf
(Post 255735)
Don't worry about it. There's not much you can do about it anyway. This was something that also concerned me when I was a probie so I feel your pain.
Although it's painfully obvious that management is negotiating in bad faith and that things are probably going to turn down right hostile around here very soon, I think it will unfortunately be a while before we are allowed to strike. When the time comes, you will have built up a fair amount of 121 turbine time (if you didn't already have it before coming here) and will have proven that you can pass a 121 training program. You should be in a good position to get hired by another company if needed. Being terminated for taking part in a legal strike should not be of concern. No future employer that you would want to work for should hold this against you knowing the life long consequences associated with the only other option during a strike - being a scab. Remember that the union has said that if any probationary pilots are taken hostage/terminated during a strike, the union will remain out on strike until those pilots are reinstated. I know it's disconcerting to have all this going on while you are on probation but keep your nose clean, remain professional and try not to worry about it too much. Take care. |
Thanks Wolf, for some reason I hadn't seen those posts by you on other treads.
Well, good luck everyone at 9E. |
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