Also as a side note marginally related to this pay discussion: Look at how everything in your life has gone up except one thing... Auto gas has gone up, your electric bills have gone up, property taxes, soda, food, movies; basically everything in your day to day life has gone up (with inflation or not) drastically compared to 10 years ago.

Now look at your pay. The "dual income effect" has run it's course. Think back to when your parents got by with only 1 income. Now with the family units and their dual income just to live at the previously accepted standard of living; it is my opinion that things need to change. Pay needs to come into line with the reality of our curent world. The dollar is falling and ression is looming... Where will we be in another 10 years?

 

Your right, supply and demand is an important attribute of Capitalism. Unfortunately, supply and demand DOES NOT apply to pilot wages. Supply and demand applies to the flight time in which airlines hire. Look back through the history of the profession, wages vs. pilot supply, no relationship exists. Airline pilot pay has always been based upon what the unions could negoiate.

Having said that, if pilots come together and use their brains, a lot of leverage can be generated from the current situation.

 

What about us without a real union?

Uh oh. Not back here again...

 

When I was sitting on Santa's lap I told him I just wanted a contract for xmas. He told me his leg was asleep. I then told him it was just a glandular problem.



In all seriousness: mgmt is a "good ole boys" club of crooks.

Case in Point- hope you follow along...

A.)PNCL CEO Phil Trenary owns a part of the hotel in OKC (yes crews stay there)... Some of the following people own the other parts.
B.)The Ex-CEO of NWA is now running United Health Care (yes we now have benes through UHC)
C.) Uncle Phil and Doug (NWA CEO) go way back- Look where Doug was before NWA...
D.) After the union did not pass at colgan Buddy Casey gets put up top
E.) Buddy and Lorenzo have a track record....


Everybody knows everybody.... how ironic they are all crooks (and this is but a sliver of the pie that is the industry). Its late and I am delusionally tired- if thats even a comprehendable statement.

 

What you have very eloquently said is precisely the problem with the industry, from the pilot's point of view. Regional airline companies are depending on this to actualize their ultra-low-pay calculus. Obviously it's working. As a result, a sub-class of pilot has emerged who is willing to work for subsistence pay, in order to obtain the minor personal gratification of flying a low-end transport aircraft. Because the individual pilot wants this personal short-term gratification, he or she is not concerned about the deleterious effect that this will have on other pilots' market value or the future of the "profession" in the long term, because it is only the short-term effect that matters.

 

Pay at the FEEDER carriers will not increase substantially until all those involved, including management but mainly the pilots who have to fight for those wages come to grips with the fact that they should negotiate those wages as if they will be their payscale for the rest of their life instead of taking the attitude that the mediocre pay is ok because the average FEEDER pilot only stays there 3-5 years. The fact is more and more pilots are making the choice to stay at companies such as Eagle, RAH, XJET, Skywest etc, and make a career out of it. Then and only then will we see wages nearing what they should and work rules to match.

 

This is extremely well put and more people looking for the "right" job should consider it.

Currently I am considering a number of job possibilities and these thoughts have crossed my mind. A number of people I know are deciding to stick with the regional they started with due to seniority numbers (read: schedules, etc). Being from Minnesota I continue to think about Mesaba and Pinnacle, since a MSP base would be ideal (I like the area). Mesaba seems to be a place where one could remain and be happy in life. Pinnacle on the other hand doesn't have alot of the contractual benefits that Mesaba does but that may change in the near future. On the other hand, maybe I should take my 2500TT 70Multi and do what so many low timers are doing and take the first job I am offered just to get the time and move on......hmmmm. What to do

I don't want to contribute to the large number of people willing to work for poverty pay and poor quality of life... So, I guess I'll keep deliberating and reading others thoughts....

 

It's easy to say that someone shouldn't take a job for mediocre pay when you already have a job flying. When trying to build time, what's a person to do? It doesn't matter where you look in the industry (cargo, pax) all the starting jobs are low pay. So should pilots as a whole not ever take intro-level jobs due to low pay? Everyone here knows that's unrealistic. This is our career choice... we're not going to not take a job. Does the system need fixed? Sure it does. Pay needs to increase at the entry level. How is that accomplished? I don't know. But saying that folks shouldn't take low-level pay, entry-level jobs, is NOT the answer. This is a messed up industry, to say the least!

 

I'm becoming more like SkyHigh every day.

 

The honest truth is that management is paid to make a profit ands not to be nice guys. So long as pilots continue to show up for the wages and working conditrions that are being offered they have no incentive to change.

Management on the other hand will walk unless they are getting a huge salary and someone out there must think they are worth it bacause they are getting paid more each day.

SkyHigh