Mesaba Street CA or FO?
 

I'm strongly considering going to Mesaba, I'm looking to get alittle better QOL, I currently work on demand freight. I exceed the requirements for a street CA, 3,600TT, 3,000ME, 2,900PIC, 1,000Turbin, Currently CA on a Turbo Prop, most 135, NO 121. I want to be a Captain, but I hear they're being pretty selective on their street CA's and having no 121 time I don't know how I stand. I also know a guy with over 10,000hrs and is typed in the 340, that was recently interviewed for a street CA and hasn't heard back. Now I'm sure I could get hired as an FO, but obviously I want to be a captain. What I'm trying to decide is if I should try to get hired as an FO with the hopes of upgrading within a couple months, or just apply for the street CA position. Now I don't want to get stuck as an FO for too long as I simply can't live on FO pay for more than probably 6 months. What do you guys at Mesaba think?

Well they didn't like him, obviously he is qualified, most people with that kind of time are at a major, the fact that hes not might mean something about his attitude/personality. You have the 1,000hrs PIC Turbine, go to a good Jet regional...................(XJT, AWAC, COMAIR, CHQ, SKW). Basically pick one of those that has a base near where you live

Only about 1/2 my turbine time is PIC, plus I forgot to mention I have NO jet time, which is why I'm shying away from Pinnacle, that and I heard they have about a 50% wash out rate. I know that I could easily transition to the Saab, being that I already fly a T-prop, about 2/3's it's size.:) I'm not real worried about getting into a jet right away either I've been offered to move into the jets where I fly as an FO a couple times and turned them down. I like flying props, I like living in Michigan, I'm very familiar with the Great Lakes area, and I like being able to see the ground pass below me from time to time. I also like being in charge, I don't know what all those identifiers are up there, but as far as I know only Mesaba, Chautauqua, and Pinnacle are moving captains up quickly. I DON'T want to be an FO for any length of time.

As for the guy I know they haven't called back, he's like me in that he doesn't want to move or commute, he's worked 135 for quite a while, but he does have abit of a harsh attitude. He's a great guy, but doesn't put off a good first impression, which IMO is probably why he hasn't heard back. I'd like to think I'm alittle easier to get along with.

neither do I, but thats life pal...............and the reason why Pinnacle has a 50% washout rate is because they hired guys with 300hrs total time.................. And not to get into a T-Prop time vs Jet thread, but I would bet airlines would rather hire a guy with both jet & T-Prop time, then just straight T-Prop time..........

He wants the cake and eat it too.

I exceed captain mins for the company I'm looking at, which is one of the prime reasons I'm looking at them. I'm ONLY considering hiring on as an FO simply from a hirablity stand point. I see on Mesaba's site that they have a 36 month seat lock that I don't want to get stuck with. If that's the case I would only apply as a CA.


Mesaba is getting ALOT of jet's I'm not too worried about getting jet time, it will happen when it happens, I don't have SJS . I'm also not worried about what the airlines want, that's another one of those it will happen when it happens. I'm only 26 and likely have another 39+ years before mandatory retirement, I'm not in any hurry I think my career is moving at a decent pace.

Back to my initial question anyone?

Highly doubt that they will hire you as a street CA with no 121 time or SF3 time.

The seat lock only applies to lateral movements (SF3 FO to CRJ FO). There is no seat lock to upgrade. Once upgraded, or if hired of the street (CA) there is a 24 month seat lock.

I say go ahead and apply. You have nothing to loose! Things are crazy around here.....it wouldn't suprise me if they DID hire you as a street captain.

If they only offer you an FO position it's not so bad either. Becuase they are hiring street captains, a line FO can bid for capt that meets the reqs and HAS TO BE AWARDED IT before a street captain can per our contract.

Basically it comes down to being an "FO" through training and maybe a little line experience before you can be awarded captain but that's faster than any other 121 operation with your situation IMO.

One thing you do need to consider when talking about QOL is that you may be captain very soon but you'll be very junior to a lot of people that haven't upgraded yet. So you'll basically be on reserve for a long time.

That 36 month seat lock is only is you want to move from one FO position to another, it doesn't keep anyone from upgrading.

It's debatable how long it would take you to upgrade if you joined as a FO. I personally don't think you'd wait more than a few months because large amounts of the FO list are about 1000hrs shy of ATP mins. I say try for the street CA position and let them know during the interview that if they decide to turn you down you'd appreciate a FO position...hell that might win you the CA spot right there!:)

Start as an F/O. Get used to the SAAB and the type of flying we do. Then in 120 days upgrade. It's also harder to washout (not that you would) as a new F/O then as a street CA. You can still be hired as a CA (with no 340 time) but you would be on the bottom of the sen list for some time. That equals reserve forever.

That sounds like a pretty good way to go. Thanks.



Trust me even being on reserve is better than what I do now!

Always consider your source....the last 3 of us to post actually WORK HERE at Mesaba!

Good luck!

I 120 days some sort of bid limit or something? I'm not real familiar with the way you guys run things.

BTW What you stated was kinda my thinking, just don't want to get stuck for too long as an FO, 120 days isn't too bad though.

Red Guy, here's some reality straight from a Mesaba guy. Neither you or your friend will get hired at XJ as a CA anytime soon. They have been very clear about wanting street CA's to have previous 121 experience. I don't mean that to sound demeaning on your 135 experience (I was a former freighter myself) just the reality of the situation.

If I were you, I would apply for a FO position at XJ as soon as possible and cross your fingers for the Saab. You'll then be paid and trained as an FO which will last a couple of months.

I would strongly consider flying the line as an FO for at least a couple more months before taking the upgrade. 121 is very different from 135. During your first year at XJ you are on probation which means they can fire you for basically any reason. Like you said, you have a long career ahead of you, and I'd hate to see it get ruined so early. But that's just me, do as you like.

CA training in the Saab is about the same length as your FO training would be. You don't receive CA pay until you are completely finished with CA training (your fed ride compete).

Hope this helps!

-IHM

Either way things go ca or fo you'll show up for the same class and seniority is awarded by age in any class so the oldest fo in the class would have a higher seniority the a younger street captain. One other thing there is a chance that if you were highered as a street ca that you may not go in the first available class as there may or may not be ca in line ahead of you. I don't know if their is a pool for ca but fo seem to go to class right away a few weeks after interview. Get in get your feet wet as an fo for a few months ask questions and then upgrade. Yeah there are a bunch of fo's on property that can't or don't want to upgrade due to atp mins, getting a full year's weather experience, or waiting for msp sf3 ca or 900 dtw mem ca. Dtw and mem saab ca are availabe to steet ca most of the time right now. New deliveries till sept at least, 2 per month on the 900 and still recieving the 200s till up to 17 we have 3 online. but the 200 are basically mostly staffed just backed up in training there. And as deliveries stop in sept the flow to northwest kicks in from 3 per month to 9 per month. So even if the fo's start upgrading there should still be plenty of movement for new fo's to upgrade in dtw of mem as saab ca. Flow agreement finalized by arbitrator yesturday.

Not a limit, many guys found themselves on the upgrade award and they bypassed for 120 days. But whatever you could do the same or take it. But it gives you the best of both worlds experience, knowledge and your quick upgrade.

After the holidays more guys will take the upgrade on the 900 as we get more delivered.

Then why are they interviewing us for street CA's?:confused:
If 121 is a requirement they should tell us!:mad:

I know they interviewed my friend with no 121 time, and one of my co-workers has an interview with them next week for street CA and he has no 121 time.

What are the CA requirements BTW? Just ATP mins? I thought I'd heard they wanted 2,500hrs.

Here's the bottom line. Your hours exceed the street CA requirement. I am assuming you already have your ATP. Apply now. Why, because Mesaba is hiring like crazy and you want to be on the front wave of the hiring wave. Even if you get hired as an FO, you will upgrade in less than 30 to 60 days for the Saab. Guys right now are being awarded even before they finish their ground school even though they were initially hired as an FO. If fast upgrade is your goal, tell them at the interview you would like to be assigned the Saab and they will try to accomodate, especially with your hours.

QOL at Mesaba is better than most regionals because I have friends at all those mentioned by others including Pinnacle and Compass and I have compared them all before I decided on XJ.

Another thing that you should keep in mind is flowthrough with NWA is being finalized as we write so if you are willing to wait a few years, you can flow up to NWA without even interviewing.

For street CA: 2000TT/500ME as posted on the website

Internal (FO upgrade): ATP mins

A little advice...if you are taking NWA into consideration for the future that's all fine and dandy. However, please do not let that be a deciding factor in your decision for XJ (let it be a bonus). Things can and do change quite often..

I agree. I am already committed to XJ but that was not a deciding factor because for me flowthrough was not even being discussed when I got hired.

Who knows?? The bar is going lower and lower every day. Maybe they will start hiring non-121 guys soon. Even so, it would do you well do get some 121 experience before its your ticket on the line every flight. Food for thought...

The flowthrough was being discussed long before you got here... they've been talking about it for years (and got close a couple times too). Sounds like this one is going to actually happen though.

-IHM

Not to hijack the thread but I heard of someone who finished the pc and has been waiting 6 months to start IOE at Mesaba. Any truth to this?

My ticket is on the line every time I fly now, I've been a Captain here for a couple years now. That doesn't really concern me. Obviously I don't know exactly what you guys do but if anything I would think life as a 121 CA would be ALOT easier than life as a 135 CA. Seems to me like alot more of the work and decisions are done and made for you. I have to do all my own preflight planning, file my own flight plan, load my own plan, perform my own weight and balance, choose my alternate, find my own weather, calculate and how much fuel I need and order it, etc all while teaching a 250 hr wonder how to fly IFR. Can you explain some of the differences?

Not that spending some time as an FO would be a bad thing, but I was more worried about simply getting better acquainted with the plane.

Sometimes doing things yourself is a better way to assure they are done right; and by making those decisions yourself you don't have to argue with the 6 other people involved in getting your flight off the gate.

I was an Airnet guy for 14 months. 121 is a different animal, there will be plenty of days here where you wish you were back there. I do. Of course, the opposite is true as well.

My comment about your ticket being on the line not to say that you are capable of being a good 121 CA but like everything in life, there's a learning curve. The feds watch 121 much closer than the 135 outfits and its nice to be able to sit in that right seat and watch how someone else handles certain situations.

As RJ85FO said, its not that its harder just VERY different. I too have done the 135 CA and the 121 CA and I'm trying to say, I'm not worried about your PIC skills, its your lack of 121 experience. You've been around long enough to understand what I'm saying.

Having experience in both positions, my best advice it to fly the line as an FO for at least a couple months before you take the upgrade. However, there is only one person in this world who can make that call.

Good luck!

Making all those decisions is great. But, as said before, making those in the confines of company policy with higher scrutiny by the FAA is different. Starting here as an FO wouldn't hurt you a bit. Get comfortable with the way we do things and then upgrade. I am waiting on the upgrade myself--not because I don't have the time or flying skills but because I am still working things out on how to be a good Mesaba captain. Maybe that will only take you a month or two, maybe longer but if you start as an FO you have the luxury of time that you don't as a street CA.

Just my $.02 but what do I know, I am just a lowly FO :D

you probably are a good pilot and i doubt anyone will say that being a 135 CA is easier. You are right in that some decisions are made for us but there are many different aspects of a 121 job. I am not saying you dont do this but 121 guys have to be very political with gate agents, flight attendants, the regs, staying out of the chiefs office, and dealing with an fo that you have never met before and have never flown with before. I used to pull gear on a citation and i am amazed at how little i knew about the 121 world. Its not something you can get out of a book or any indoc class... you need to get thrown into some ****ty situations and deal with it (know when you can put your foot down and cant) and not **** the wrong people off. I am only an fo but i can tell you that there are bad captains who i have flown with (upgrade was at 2 yrs here for awhile) who end up getting walked on because they are too afraid of ****ing someone off. Dispatch, Maintenance,... they dont know the ballgame well enough. If your a new captain on probation from the union, dealing with new SOP's, new airplane, and brand new fo's who you really cant rely on in bad situations... i could see some bad things happening. Good luck with our decision.

You're not talking about MESABA r u ?

nah xjt. sorry. probably should have made that clearer.

I have a question for anyone who interviewed as a street CA. What was it like? I referred a friend of mine who has an interview on the 27th of this month. I'd like to be able to give him an idea of what to expect. Thanx in advance!

That's exactly what I was thinking (especially the lowly FO part). Seriously though, the hardest part about switching companies has to be learning how to be a good pilot for the new place. Different ops specs, different culutures, different goals even. I'm a lowly FO also. Isn't it great?

It's a steep learning curve the first month but as long as you pay attention and strive to improve yourself, you'll be alright and the transition is smoother than you think. Just pick up all the good points from CAs you fly with and learn not to do bad traits you see.

Another question then, if one was to end up getting hired as a street captain at Mesaba in the next few months, how long would they expect to be on reserve and what would a typical schedule be like, 5 days or 6 days on and 2 days off? From a qol standpoint (not talking about type of experience) that isn't much different then flying on demand, except OD at least the 2 days off are on the weekend versus a monday tuesday or worse, the call out time would be different but that isnt saying much when you already live an hour away from the airport you'd be on reserve at.

Depends on the desired base. MSP would be longer than DTW would typically be a little longer than MEM. In any case, you'd be on reserve for quite some time.

For straight reserve, yes.

Call out time at XJ is 1:30 to show, 2:30 to departure. If you live at (or near) your base, most people find life on reserve tolerable... some even prefer it to a scheduled line. If you're the type of person that likes reserve, the street CA position may be a good fit for you.

-IHM

Well I applied for FO today. I'll be waiting for the yea or nae. My Buddy go the nae BTW that was one of the deciding reasons for just applying as an FO.

Also even reserve doesn't come close to what I do now. From what I read reserve is on call for 14 hours a day with min of 11 days off and as stated above 1:30 show. I only live about 40 min from DTW. My current schedule is on call 24 hours a day with 2-4 scheduled days off a month and a 20 min call out. Basically what I really want to get away from is getting called out at 11pm after being up all day then flying a 14+hour duty day. That just plain sucks.

This sounds like a certain 135 outfit on the Northeast corner of PTK.....

Maybe, could be a certain operator on the South Side of PTK too.;) Actually I've worked for both. Just trying to get ride of the pager now, either are a good place to build some time though.

Well good luck to you. I know reserve life at Mesaba is a big improvement over the kind of stuff you are used to. I spent 4 years as an FO on reserve at Mesaba back in 1st part of the decade. It’s not all that bad but it can get old after a while. Get to know the screw schedulers well and you should be able to get some decent trips, at least some of the time. But from the sounds of it, you shouldn’t have to be on reserve very long if you get hired in as an FO.