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-   -   Mesa Leaves/Locks Passenger On a Jet in ORD (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/20547-mesa-leaves-locks-passenger-jet-ord.html)

FlyerJosh 01-01-2008 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB (Post 290983)
Lesson number 1: Don't trust a Canadian that tells you their Jet doesn't need Ice Protection on the tail-feathers. Check it out next post-flight.

Not to hijack the thread but, huh? It obviously doesn't need ice protection since there hasn't been a CRJ or CL65 crash due to a tailplane stall... Should we say the same about the other manufacturers that don't anti-ice their tails...?

cbire880 01-02-2008 04:56 AM

Especially considering that no ice protection on the tail is normal for high flying turbine aircraft. Check out a 737. It has to do with the limited exposure to icing conditions as compared to a prop or t-prop.

ExperimentalAB 01-02-2008 05:19 AM

Limited exposure or not, I picked up severe (yes, severe) icing on approach to DEN. Even w/tail anti-icing on the Jungle Jet there were four inches of Rime in 20 seconds covering the aircraft. Glad I wasn't in the CRJ...Limited exposure? Thanks but no thanks!

Joeshmoe 01-02-2008 06:34 AM

No anti-ice on the tail of the 170 either.

FlyerJosh 01-02-2008 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB (Post 291102)
Limited exposure or not, I picked up severe (yes, severe) icing on approach to DEN. Even w/tail anti-icing on the Jungle Jet there were four inches of Rime in 20 seconds covering the aircraft. Glad I wasn't in the CRJ...Limited exposure? Thanks but no thanks!

I've picked up some serious ice on the tail of the CRJ and never noticed a difference in handling. No biggie. I'll try to dig up the ice certification videos for the Challenger. Trust me- they build up a heck of a lot more than 4" of ice on the plane (all surfaces) during the certification tests. Those guys have to have guts to fly behind a tanker spraying water at FL300.

ExperimentalAB 01-02-2008 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by FlyerJosh (Post 291131)
I've picked up some serious ice on the tail of the CRJ and never noticed a difference in handling. No biggie. I'll try to dig up the ice certification videos for the Challenger. Trust me- they build up a heck of a lot more than 4" of ice on the plane (all surfaces) during the certification tests. Those guys have to have guts to fly behind a tanker spraying water at FL300.

You can say that again...! I'd be very interested to see the numbers actually, if you can find 'em.

FlyerJosh 01-03-2008 05:16 AM

Still trying to find that info... If I do, I'll start a new thread. Here's a cool pic of how they do it though:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...c-135r-ait.jpg

ExperimentalAB 01-03-2008 07:04 AM

That is one helluva photo! Is that a Saab 2000?? I've got about ten min's in one of their Level D's :D

sigep_nm 01-03-2008 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB (Post 291841)
That is one helluva photo! Is that a Saab 2000?? I've got about ten min's in one of their Level D's :D

Yes that is a Saab 2000, and from people that I have talked to who have flown, quite possible the best TP ever built, too bad the RJ had to come along and ruin the chance of flying that.

BoilerUP 01-03-2008 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by FlyerJosh (Post 291027)
Not to hijack the thread but, huh? It obviously doesn't need ice protection since there hasn't been a CRJ or CL65 crash due to a tailplane stall...

Pretty sure there was a hard landing by Skywest where tail icing was a contributing, if not the main, cause...

The 727 didn't have tail anti-ice either, but I've seen them completely iced up before...just like a CRJ tail. Just because there hasn't been an accident for tail stall (yet) doesn't mean it wouldn't be prudent to have tail anti-ice protection. The Beechjet has a known tail-stall issue related to icing (thing becomes a friggin' lawn dart!) and IIRC an inop tail heater is a no-go item.

I mean let's think about it, the airplane was designed by Canadians but it is absolutely horrid for errant EICAS messages when it gets cold-soaked and the flap fail issue has (in part) been attributed to slush/snow working its way into the system.


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