Pilots Respond to Wall Street Journal article
 

The Wall Street Journal published some letters to the editor responding to the recent excellent and long-overdue article on how low regional salaries are contributing to the "pilot shortage."

Nice to see some national media attention finally on this. Hopefully guys named Orenstein, Trenary, Foley and the rest will read this stuff.


If You Want More Pilots,
Make Salaries Takeoff
January 2, 2008; Page A9

While the future sounds bleak for airlines with respect to finding experienced pilots ("The Middle Seat: Airlines Lower Bar to Fill Pilot Ranks," Personal Journal, Dec. 18), the airlines themselves are contributing to the shortage. According to your article, starting salaries for pilots are as low as $24,000 per year. However, a new pilot at a regional airline, with less-than-desirable work rules, is more likely to encounter a starting salary of $18,000 to $21,000. This is after spending $100,000 or more on aviation education, as many pilots do.
In order to attract more experienced pilots to the industry, regional airlines shouldn't add insult to injury by offering entry-level salaries that qualify pilots and their families for food stamps.
Z. Mahdlo
Flight Instructor
University of North Dakota
Grand Forks, N.D.

Time will tell if the old adage of "you get what you pay for" holds true for airline safety and reliability.
Vincent N. Young
Retired Airline Captain
Kerrville, Texas

As a pilot of one of the country's largest airlines, I was forced to bypass returning after being furloughed because of the significant pay cut I would have endured. Is it any surprise that many talented individuals are now avoiding the industry, albeit with the sorrow of not being able to do what they love? I think it is naive to believe that because of technology or other improvements, this decreased experience level will be without effect.
Stephen V. Martell
Airline Transport Pilot
Washington

The guy sitting next to me on a Company -700 (First class, if it matters) saw my Crew ID and asked if I was a Pilot...yes, I replied, for SkyWest (dumbed it down to United Express when I got a blank-stare). Anyway, we started talking compensation, and I asked him what he thought I made...His reply? 100K as an FO (sorry - a Co-Pilot :rolleyes:). Not only was he shocked that I could actually fly the plane, and even LAND THE PLANE once in awhile, he couldn't believe I did it for ~20K/yr.

Don't even know what to think about what is wrong with this world.

It's ok. I can't believe you do it either.

I can't believe you do it either!! I can't believe we all do it!

Oh snap! You just got served.

ouch. That was just funny

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ry20Hits20.gif

Alright...jokes on me?! LoL

I encountered a similular situation a
few days ago! I was at a bar(big surprise) and one of my buddies was talkingabout me flying! Needless to say some dude was
like "what do you make man? Like 150k a year?"

No keep in mind I live in sdf and most people in the area know ups pilots and expect that we all make that kind of scratch! I quickly explained to him the situation and his rebuttle was



"man that sucks! I thought pilots were loaded"



So I continue to wear my uniform with a fake wedding ring! (you know it works) to the farmers market and spin class!

I'll let you know how it works out!


Cheers
SK

Was in SDF last night. I don't think I have ever been colder than I was this morning walking across the street to the local Waffle House...must have been well below Zero, not including the wind-chill ::shivers::

And it just felt colder I think because it 'aint supposed to be anywhere near that cold in Kentucky!!

I definitely think that it was a good idea that the WSJ publish the responses, but it is still a far cry from the CNN / FOX /ABC whoever media outlets that we need to reach out to. No matter how much you spread the word, it seems like it stops there. We just all need to interview on live TV while in the cockpit showing out pay stub.

I racked up a measly take home $19K my first year. Here's to 2008!!!

Blame ALPA or the Teamsters... for some reason, the teachers union in CA had more public exposure in 2005-6 than we have ever had. WHY??? I don't get it. This is the kind of thing we need to "flood the market" with:

http://www.planebuzz.com/Tribune%20F...030%202007.pdf

I find that life is better if I don't go to Waffle House sober. Follow this rule, and you'll never notice the chill while walking to WH.

I definitely agree with you. I definitely feel as if those labor unions are able to hit the public appeal quicker. At the same time, the "knowledgeable" public knows and believe that teachers get no compensation and they side with them while we still make $100K. What are we whining about huh?

Touché....

I was on the train going to the airport when someone asked how much I made. When I told him, he didn't believe me and insisted I was lying.

blame the union all you want, but lets face it the Union isnt making guys apply and take the job for 19k a year.................

Guess who makes up the "union" people like you and I, so the more we sit back and do nothing, the more we are allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of.........

The Union and management are in bed together on this... they're both crooks in my opinion.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you are one of those guys that took a job for 19k a year after you took a job before that was even less than that? Maybe the orange and turqoise (think those are you new colors) kool aid has made you forget, but Saab you are ONE OF THOSE GUYS, but no love lost, your still a Saab driver so nuff respect.

Yeah, thats my point, I chose to go to Colgan, then I chose to take the job here at Express for 19k a year, as well as I would be more then happy to take the job at CAL for 30k my first year, so I guess I am somewhat of a hypocrite, but at least I can say I would never take a job at GOJETS :). Agian though, the problem lies with the individual as mush as any union, lets face it union have nowhere near as much power they had decades ago...................actually maybe its just the airline union that are weak, look at the writes, autoworkers, and the MTA who have the easiest job in the world, and they had no problem going on strike....................

I'm in Toledo with a broken airplane and while it was cold in The Ville the last couple days (especially yesterday) its cold ain't got nothin' on TOL...

Next time you're in town lemme know!

Good enough, i think I just misread your quote or maybe i hit it spot on, who cares though, and I am glad that you have never gone to **Jets (its disrespectful to the industry to actually spell out their names). I absolutely agree that the airline unions are weak, and i think the root of the problem is that we only have one (alpa) or two unions working the entire system, hence turning the industry into somewhat of a communist state, instead of having a free market where we could have a choice of unions. But I digress, go ALPA i guess.

My parent's garbage man makes $65k a year, and can have all the over time he wants. He clocks in at 4am, clocks out at 3pm, and gets paid for 11 hours. When I told him about how we, as airline pilots get paid he almost spewed Guinness from his nostrils. Show to work at 6:15am after reduced rest, do a walk around in freezing weather, fly two 2:30 legs with a 5:45 sit in between, get released at 4:00pm with 10:45 duty day and only 5:00 hrs of pay. Effectively, I just wh0red myself out to XJT for $15.00/duty hr.

Sorry.... make that $10.00.... since the crooks in DC took their cut, and ALPA snagged it's 2%

But at least you arent a garbage man:D, I hear sewer inspectors make quite a bit too, and to tell you the truth I cant remember the last time that flying was hard

Must be in the right seat....move to the left, and when things start not going as smoothly, the stress kicks up just a tad bit more....and you still don't get to make 65,000 a year....

Things only get as hard as you make them, and unless you are in the business of getting yourself killed the stress is shared by both seats. The industry is what it is, but i dont fly a jet so I am obviously an inferior pilot that never has to deal with cruising at FL400, or shooting an ILS into class B airspace or getting vectored onto the final course at every airport that I go to. I am just glad that they only make me do full procedure approaches and land at uncontrolled fields 4 out of 9 legs in one day.

Spoken like someone who has never flown a jet. Contrary to popular belief every approach is not a vector to a fully functioning ILS on a well lit runway. We do plenty of visuals where there is no help from ATC, no published instrument approach, not even so much as a PAPI. We often fly to the same Po Dunk airports that you do, and sometimes we even land after the tower has closed (gasp) with the autopilot off (horror). I'll admit I've never had to fly a full procedure, does flying a procedure turn make you more of a man or something?

It's not a matter of physical labor. It's a matter of principle.

It's pretty pathetic that a lot of us flying 50 million dollar aircraft, with up to 90 people on board, qualify for food stamps. If you're happy making peanuts, why then be my guest! But I, for one, am disgusted how we are treated in this profession. Peoples lives are in our hands for crying out loud! If a sewer inspector misses a detail at work, nothing major happens. If we miss a detail, and end up sliding off an icy runway, there are major repercussions.

Wow... talk about ignorance. Try flying into RNO when it's windy and icy, ONT with the Santa Ana winds, OMA in the snow with MUs hovering right above 18, or just the general mayhem of EWR when the proverbial poop hits the fan.

And then there's Mexico.... where you DO have to fly full procedures! ::gasp:: And still keep your SA in focus while flying, because ATC WILL descend you into a mountain if you're not careful! Check out the Mateo transition into Mexico City... that's a fun one.

It's not all peachy just because you're in a jet.

KLCH should definitely qualify... :D

Okay that does it whip 'em out and let's measure! :rolleyes:

Crazy how you assume I am a male..... :rolleyes:

I actually didn't completely get your point of the other post .... but in my experience from flying charter for 3 years and airline for 3 years ..... each have different difficulties .... and both deserve a significant amount of money .... but the charter flying was by far more demanding of my actual piloting skills

Crazy how you assume the only flying I've ever done is airline. ;)

My post was simply in response to the slam that all we fly are coupled ILS approaches in Class B airspace. Anyone who makes a statement like that is simply ignorant. I wasn't trying to start a debate on airline vs. charter and which is more difficult.

Well, I volunteer and participate in ALPA... but I have only been around a couple of years. My generation of newhires and those after me are inheriting the momentum built up over decades, and for some reason the folks in power just won't respond to the rapidly changing environment. Why why why? It seems we get a small foothold and SLIP its gone again. And, I don't think that the fact that there are newhires is the problem. I keep bringing it up, but look at the longshoremen. They get paid bank and there are plenty of folks who would like to do their jobs... ***?

I take out the trash, help the FA clean up in the back, and order LAV when it's stinky... I AM a garbage man and a sewage inspector. I want my 65K dagnabbit.

KMFE
KHRL
KBRO
KUNV
Did you need me to keep going?

Don't forget KXNA.

Unfortunately, that really is all we do...most of the time. Captain flipped-out again today that I wouldn't use the FD :rolleyes:

You know you're gonna crash doing that don't you? I mean, planes fall out of the sky all the time on vis approaches when the FD gets turned off. Heck, we're skating on thin ice as it is without a HUD in these dang things.

Food Dispenser?

Fart Detector?

Flight Diaper?

Free Doughnuts?

???