Jumping ship on regionals
 

Hey guys!

I'm looking to put in resumes for the regionals here in a few months and was trying to do some long term planning. Eventually, I would like to work for someone like NetJets and was wondering, realistically, how long it would be before I was eligible for that sort of job. How many pilots do this sort of thing? I've noticed that a lot of people are very concerned about upgrade times. This may be a dumb question with an obvious answer, but why don't more pilots leave the regionals for better jobs rather than waiting for an upgrade?

Thanks!

Very good question. Many of the so called "desireable" spots at the majors and cargo require 1000 PIC turbine which is why these folks wait for the almighty upgrade. As far as NetJets I believe its all about multi turbine time. Correct me if I am wrong for any of the NetJetsetters. :D

Alot of pilots do, and alot of pilots dont either. From my understanding many employers dont like to see alot different employers on a resumee; I think it has something to do with loyalty and commitment towards a company =).

As for the Netjets question depends on their mins, how much flying you do, what type of flying, timing, and luck. A friend of mine got hired with them at 24 he met the mins; most of his time was mountain and alaskan/ multi turbine.

Hard time getting on anywhere after a regional if the only PIC time you have is in a 172. You need that TPIC and you will need an upgrade to get it, called putting in your time and paying you dues.

Gotcha. I figured that was the case, otherwise everyone would be leaving and going somewhere better.

Here are the NetJet minimums as per their website:

To qualify as a NetJets Aviation, Inc. (Citation, Hawker, Falcon, Gulfstream 200, Boeing aircraft) pilot candidate you must have the following prerequisites:

• Airline Transport Pilot Certificate (Multi-Engine Land)
• Current FAA First Class Medical certificate
• 2500 hours total pilot time
• 500 hours fixed wing multi-engine time
• 250 hours instrument time (actual or simulated in flight - excludes simulator time)

I even looked up hiring minimums for a major airline (Delta) and saw that no PIC time was required (just 1,000 hours of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan time). The page did say this:

When evaluating the flight time of applicants meeting the basic qualifications, consideration will be given to, among other things, quality, quantity, recency, and verifiability of training; complexity of aircraft flown; types of flight operations; and hours flown as PIC in turbine powered aircraft.

Is PIC time an unsaid minimum, or is it possible to get hired with a major, or with someone such as NetJets with no turbine PIC?

If you meet the listed mins you can get hired, just not likely. If you are walking in w/o TPIC you better have something else to make up for it like a letter of rec from the Chief Pilot or dating the CEO's daughter.

Also remember these are minimums, as it at least this. We on the regional level get used to looking at listed mins and what you need to get hired and as soon as you get the mins you will get hired due to the shortage at the regional level. The Majors and Fractional are not at that level of desperation yet and with 65 going through it may not be that way for a while.

Turbine PIC isn't a requirement at several of the "major" airlines. At some however, especially desireable ones such as UPS or Southwest, it is. Continental, Northwest, and apparently atleast Delta don't require it. Is it possible to get the job without having the TPIC? yes, normally you'll need some inteneral recomendations however, but it is possible. Without that turbine PIC, and without a recomendation you'll be behind all the other candidates who have your same qualifications, and pilot in command time of a turbine powered airplane.

If you're trying for netjets (which i wouldn't mind myself) you can feel free to apply with 2500 hrs, if they give you the interview....you're set, if not, you'll be hanging out at the regional you're at until they do, which, might be after they award you with an upgrade. Another thought, were u just planning on getting your Multi-ATP in a light twin? It's nice to have the company pay for a certificate for you as opposed to you doing it all yourself as with the past.

Exactly. With the shortage of pilots, especially at the regional level, I think this effect will trickle up to the majors in the future where they will hire people with just SIC time, which some of them already do.

Not exactly. The majors are very much reaching the desperation level. Just look at the relaxed PIC requirements at DA and the relaxed degree requirement along with age at UAL. Its only a matter of time before meeting mins is all it takes for a face to face at a legacy.

the majors are reaching a desperation level? what? youre joking right? if they cut their pay AGAIN youd still see a giant stack of resumes at every major... just look at united when they starting hiring again this past fall. absolutely pitiful place to work yet they got thousands upon thousands of resumes for what, 150 new hire slots or so?

the reason many majors have relaxed requirements is so that certain people can get in (fighter pilots, relatives, and people who might somehow get preferential treatment). its been like this for decades

The wife is in the recruiting dept at UAL. Sleep well with that notion.......

Delta has never had a PIC requirement, even before sept 11

BUT ..... I'm with a regional now, 3 years FO corporate, 3 years FO at this regional, college intern with delta, delta legacy....well quilified....they called and told me they wanted PIC time to give me an interview.

so comes the waiting of the upgrade.....

you are totally correct......

hopefully delta will lower the pic time they are requesting in the near future!

so she told you UAL is desperate for pilots? hehe :)

I have to disagree 100% with your statement that the Majors are at the same state of crisis in regards to hiring as the Regionals are. "Relaxing" requirements is one thing, we all knew that this time in avation was on its way, but it is in no comparison to the Regional crisis where many airlines can not even find candidates with the basic minimum requirements.

If the Majors were at the desperation level as you speak every Regional guy with 1500/1000 would be going to CAL and since I exceed Delta's requirement of 1200/1000 I should be starting there in a week.

The 250 hr wonderkids barley have any pic at all. (172 or otherwise)

Severely ill-informed. Delta's mins are the same they have always been (even when fedex, ups, and swa guys were trying to get on here. as resent as 2001) and not the result of your improperly perceived "desperation". The average new hire of late had 6000+ tt and 2500+ pic and there are over 12,000 apps on file.

Have your people talk a little further with AC. They have hired regional FOs in the recent past. Of course the one I'm familiar with was stuck at Eagle for 7 years and had about 8,000 hrs.

That was my pioint. That without logging TPIC at a Regional you will be hard pressed to make it past the Regional level, we all know PIC is not even an issue to get to the Regional level.

Juice I said they are reaching the desperation level, not that they are completely there yet. It doesn't take a stretch of the mind to see that the ship is headed in that direction when you see, as you stated, a relaxing of requirements.
I didn't mention CAL because I don't know what their mindset is at CAL. I mentioned UAL since my wife works in the recruiting dept. and I've spoken not only with her but others higher up who's sentiments are that the relaxing of requirements at UAL is directly related to the fact that they aren't getting the numbers they need. You can disagree all you want and I respect that. :)

Your apps on file numbers are just plain wrong. Where do you get your facts from?

they can lower their mins all they want. its an invitation to apply not a guarantee for an interview or to get hired. You have to stand out and be almost a chuck yeager, thats is related to someone, and with an awesome resume to get through at or near their application mins.

and probably had a bit of PIC from flight instructing?? i have like 65 hours of dual given! lucked out right out of college and got a part 91 job flying a jet..... guess not so lucky now huh!!??

Oh, yea, he had 1500 piston pic. good luck though.:)

Your statement about delta removing a pic requirement was/is just plain wrong. Where did you get that "fact" from? As for my info, I had drinks with the former manager of pilot recruitment (Capt. J Swift, now 777 fleet manager) last fall and he mentioned the number. I guess he could have been pulling my leg, but that's really not his style.:cool:

I work for Netjets,( best job, contract, and QOL I've ever had). We just had an adjustment to our contract last December. Within a week, the HR Dept. was flooded with resumes. From now on, you will need turbine time, preferibly jet to get the call. More and more of the people interviewing at NJ have Jet PIC, most come from the regionals. They seem to like military guys as well, every other newbie I run into flew an Army King Air, a fighter jet or tanker. Its going to get very competitive. NJI is done hiring, from now all their people will come from NJ. Last year when they were hiring, I heard that it was easier to get an interview with Fedex or UPS than Netjets International. I can see that, the G-IV/V is a sweet ride.

In about 3-4 years it'll take you a good 7-8 years to upgrade, still better than the majors 12+. Try to get on at NJ ASAP, however if you're young I guess it doesn't matter. The problem is that we have hundreds of guys in their 60s, they seem to have forgotten what the notion of retirement is.

good luck, hope to see you here one day

Was at corporate headquarters in IL last week and spoke with both chief pilot and senior manager in recruiting. The number you were given is wrong. Thanks for playing. ;)

Dude,
Newsflash - Corporate Headquarters is in Atlanta - I think you are confusing DAL with UAL. The DAL numbers are correct.
Scoop

Don't confuse crummy regionals with good regionals. At the circus joints (like the one I fly for) folks are scrambling to get out because these places suck. If you are fairly senior at a good regional, the tendency to stay is higher. Also, the comments about having at least 1000 PIC are accurate. With the eb and flow typical of the industry you don't want to be caught looking for a job without the "mins" to qualify.

Good luck to you sir! Do your research before you apply, and find a good intermediate step that would serve as a permanent slot should you get stuck for a while.

Newsflash Hoss.......obviously you didn't read the prior posts as "numbers" was a reference to the number of applications UAL has on hand, not DAL. Yes, WELL aware DAL headquarters is in ATL, just as anyone with a pulse also knows UAL headquarters is in ORD.

you guys are totally confusing the pic requirements and total number of apps for UAL and DAL....

DAL--1200 total/ 1000 turbine....NO PIC REQUIREMENT .... but there is a PIC they would like you to have to give you an interview. I too spoke with CA Swift back in Feb when they may have had about 12000 apps on file....not the case anymore.... they have gone through many many 1000s

UAL--1500 total/ 1000 PIC ME / 500 turbine .... not sure about the apps on file, but judging from the guys that i have talked to who have interviewed and joeshmoe's wife....not too many.....

Thank you Tonne, well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez340 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
Severely ill-informed. Delta's mins are the same they have always been (even when fedex, ups, and swa guys were trying to get on here. as resent as 2001) and not the result of your improperly perceived "desperation". The average new hire of late had 6000+ tt and 2500+ pic and there are over 12,000 apps on file.


Your apps on file numbers are just plain wrong. Where do you get your facts from?

Can I have some of what you're smoking?!? My comments have solely been about Delta as that is for whom I fly and don't know anything about UAL recruitment. I suggest you read the previous posts.

You said delta had removed a pic requirement, to which I responded the above, to which you questioned my source, which I answered, to which you inexplicably said someone in Ill. new more about delta recruiting.

As I said I had cocktails with the captain in the fall and that is what he said. He had already been replaced by Arnie but i feel certain he knows more about it than a CRJ FO who spoke to him 6 months earlier. REGARDLESS, the point is Delta is not desperate for applicants and didn't remove a PIC requirement that was never there as Chuck Norris.... er..uh.. joeshmoe suggests.

if you read my other posts...you'll see that i said Delta does not have and never did have pic requirements....and that dates back to before 9/11....i should know...cause i worked in pilot hiring in jan of 2001

why do you continue to pick fights??....and think you know everything??

Let me dumb this down for you.........
The only thing I mentioned about Delta was the pic requirement which you have LABORIOUSLY repeated was incorrect. Fine, point taken, I don't work for DAL.

NOW, since that is the only thing I mentioned in regards to DELTA in the same sentence, where is the disconnect in your brain when it comes to apps on file you mentioned you had knowledge of? I never mentioned a word about applications on file other than at UNITED, yet you made a very clear statement about talking with Capt. so and so about applications on file, never mentioning what airline you were referring to but I guess through osmosis I'm supposed to realize you were talking about DAL. Whatever.

Wow...... OK, I'll bite and continue to beat this dead horse.

Here is your original post.

joeshmoe: Not exactly. The majors are very much reaching the desperation level. Just look at the relaxed PIC requirements at DA and the relaxed degree requirement along with age at UAL. Its only a matter of time before meeting mins is all it takes for a face to face at a legacy.

Below is my retort to your statements about major airline recruitment desperation level followed by your response to me challenging the numbers I quoted. I mention Delta's number of applications as evidence that you were mistaken, at lease in Delta's case, in saying they were growing desperate for recruits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez340 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
Severely ill-informed. Delta's mins are the same they have always been (even when fedex, ups, and swa guys were trying to get on here. as resent as 2001) and not the result of your improperly perceived "desperation". The average new hire of late had 6000+ tt and 2500+ pic and there are over 12,000 apps on file.


joeshmoe: Your apps on file numbers are just plain wrong. Where do you get your facts from?

I can't for the life of me see how anyone reading the above post could conclude my comments were about anyone but Delta. You don't need osmosis... It says Delta in the text.

Well then I guess we'll just agree to disagree on what what was said and what was meant. I had made two completely separate comments, one on PIC time and the other about apps on file. Clearly both referring to two different airlines. Why you had to mention apps on file at DAL in your post when I made no mention of apps on file at DAL is beyond me......but we're now peeing into the ocean to watch it rise.

Sorry, can't type very fast. Just finished final edit. You quoted and responded before got it off. Oh well. Latest version may clear it up somewhat.

I can't type for $#@! either. If it doesn't resemble an FMS its a total search and peck for me. :p