My own first emergency landing
 

So the other day I'm flying out of PHL to ALB with First Officer Groovinaviator and he's at the stick and right after "gear up" we get the STAB TRIM and MACH TRIM master caution messages. No biggie. I reach down and push those bad boys back in and about a second later the same DING comes over my headset. Try it again and again, "DING". Well, by now I am getting irate because I have to call Philly Departure and try to read the QRH and make sure that he's flying the airplane OK, which he is.

I tell them we'll climb to 5000 feet (as cleared) and we'll maintain heading and I'll call them back when I get a chance, we have a trim problem.

They were cool about it and gave us vectors and we landing on 27L in PHL with about 800 fire trucks and cops and their families out for the excitement and they all followed us back to the terminal. Or so it seemed.

It was pretty late and of course the company was able to rustle up another airplane for us to complete the flight. Can you say, "Seven legs".

Anway, Groovinaviator is a stud. Flew the airplane perfectly and we came around and landed Flaps 20 (QRH procedure). Smoothest landing of the whole trip. And the airplane was out of trim the whole time.

The man is a right wing nutjob, but he can sit right seat for me any day he can put up with me!

Good job young man! Keep working on your twin time and maybe one day you can grow up and be a CRJ captain..... :D

Anyway, I guess anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It was a learning experience and worked out just like it should have. Cool. What wasn't cool was that when we finally got to ALB we had been on duty about 14-15 hours. That's not cool.

Groovinaviator...a God amongst men. Must be all that time he spent flying around with me in Kansas...:D

I've had that happen maybe fifty time, only happens with AP selected to the FO's side. Trim only didn't reengage once and that definately elevated the pulse rate. Returned to the field and MX walks onto the plane reaches down, pushes the buttons and the trim engages.

Who is this chosen one you speak of? Grovinaviator. Sounds like the next charles lindbergh.

A/P was not on. Won't engage without trim. Every I would re-engage the trim it would disconnect. Definitely something wrong with the airplane.

Young Skywalker handled it well.

Now I re-read your post. The XFR switch would have been on the F/O side. Interesting. Still, something was wrong if it will only work properly on the Capt. side. I am not sorry we went back to PHL.

He's someone I touched on both sides of the shoulder and put my blessings on.

Now that sounds awfully sexual :eek:

It wasn't Kansas that put that intestinal fortitude in him. It was Parks. :)

Saab, glad to hear everything worked out. It sounds like you guys earned your pay on that one. Well done!

Doesn't sound like the trim didn't have a future there...

What airplane was that? There was one I remember that always did those farking transient trim messages but I don't recall it off hand...we always got it reset without issue though.

Just wait until you get to do a no-flapper!

Thats a spicy meatball...at least in the ERJ!:D

I was in the middle of a raw-data ILS to min's a couple months ago and the stupid mach-trim/stab-trim's disconnected...way out of trim for half the approach, the Captain timed it perfectly and got the trims re-engaged for me just before touchdown...making all the difference LoL

Has only happened to me that one...pucker-factor for sure. Good job, btw - and give ole' groovinaviator a pat on the back!

Dude, you and your raw data approaches. I guess I should bow to your superior piloting skillz.:D

Easy now...with my skillz I certainly need the practice :D And besides, you don't get the opportunity to fly to min's very often...gotta make the most of it!!

before you started the approach did you say "watch this!" you have to make sure to always say that so it can be on the NTSB report

I hate to sound like a jerk, but that is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever heard. I don't care who you are, I don't consider an aircraft with paying passengers in the back (some of whom I may care personally about) to be your personal skills consolidation device. If you think your skills are that bad then it is your responsibility to request additional training from the training department. Subjecting the flying public to your stupid pilot tricks is irresponsible at best and dangerous at worst. If I was your captain on that flight I would not have allowed it and we definitely would have had a conversation very similar to this when we parked at the gate. Now, VMC? Thats a different story. Raw data it up all you want.

Seriously dude, what do you have to prove? You wanna fly raw data to mins? Get your butt in the sim.

ghilis you are absolutely right! I should have declared an emergency for not having the FD up :eek:!!

What on earth was I thinking, actually flying an airplane. :rolleyes: That is way too dangerous. I'll remember for next time. Thanks for looking out for me.

I'll second the Parks comment, even if I do agree with Kansas a bit.

Parks did have a good part in it, but I bet that flying broken ass planes on their first flights also puts things into perspective.:D

Nice flying Groovin!

Checko

you know when you start off with something like that, i makes you sound even worse, no offense. i agree with FFB but i wouldnt necessarily take the same tone. yes were all pilots who can in theory fly an ILS raw data. and because we are all qualified to do so, I cant fault you for not using the AP or FD (In this case AP wasnt available to you anyway). What I can suggest to you next time however is to use those things because in an approach to minimums situation, a lot of things can go wrong, and you place a higher workload on the other pilot . i dont think its something you should be berated for, and FFB imo was being harsh on you.


btw my ntsb comment was a joke and only that, i wasnt critiscizing you (i say it randomly on almost every flight, along with "captain i dont think this is safe" for FDR comedic purposes)

You know what's even scarier to me? Having my family-members on any RJ these days, where I can guarantee you 9 out of 10 Pilots cannot fly an approach without the FD.

So does this mean that you will not let friends and family fly on those "dangerous" old-school birds like a DC-9 with no FD? I don't tell you how to fly an Airplane...

My apologies for jumping on you then LoL.

The CRJ makes it pretty easy to fix something if you're not on the FD...just punch "approach mode," for example, and viola - there is the FD...now just steer the plane into it ;)

I like to keep the AP on for approaches to minimums simply for the sake of the missed. The 170 is a kick in the butt during a two engine go around. Its especially fast to a low level off missed. For that reason, I like to be able to just hit the TOGA button and observe the airplane go missed while I deal with all the configuration changes that are going on. It can be done by hand and should be in VMC or during sim training, but I'd rather free up the brain bytes for the other stuff going on.

Way to go buddy! You just insulted 9 out of 10 of us! Clearly you are God's gift to aviation and we are truly lucky to have the shining light of your presence cast upon us lowly autopilot and flight director addicted RJ pilots:rolleyes: I'll ask it again: what do you have to prove?

I'm not telling you how to fly your airplane. I'm just saying you shouldn't treat a jet transport aircraft with paying passengers in the back as a 172 you're up with your buddy shooting approaches in.

PS
I'm fairly certain every DC-9 I've been in the front of had a FD.

Just did my first non-autopilot missed in DEN the other day, actually...Mesa couldn't get off the runway quick enough (nose-wheel steering?), so Tower sent us packing from 200 feet. Even though it was clear and a million, I really had to convince myself to not kick into warp-speed...I was surprised at how smoothly it went - the most difficult part was remembering the call-outs LoL, and we were in the -700 and light as hell.

FFB - you can just go ahead and start calling me Chuck Freakin' Yeager whenever you'd like :rolleyes:

Not a chance, bud.:D

EDIT: Original post removed due to childishness

Smart move

I had a plane recently that kept kicking off the stab/mach trims, but it turned out it was just the F/O hitting the disconnect thinking he was syncing the FD.

That's priceless! Now that I think about it, that must be why the CA kept on asking me if I was touching the Sync...! Number 1, the FD wasn't even up - no need to Sync...and Number 2, it kicked off repeatedly without my right hand even on the Yoke.

Send him back to training :p

Glad that everyone is safe:o

Nice to see someone who actually likes flying a plane rather than programming it.

That said, one should be sure he/she is choosing to handfly (or anything else) because it is the Prudent thing to do. As I was not there, I would NEVER second guess the decisions you or any other pilot makes who lands the plane safely (something too many folks on this forum tend to do).

Safe, Prudent, and Legal..... yep, we're good to go.




On a different note....
There were several comments about the aircrafts giving "goofy" warnings under very specific situations. Everybody flying highly automated aircraft should remember that the more automated a plane is, the more subtle (and often confusing) embeded glitches can be. When one loses faith in George or the computer, time to be an ol' fashened flyer.

Gotta stay proficient somehow lol. No sense flying the flight director all day when they don't let you use it in the sim :D

I think some of you guys misunderstand the purpose of the FD and how to use it. The FD is NOT an "idiot guide" so that you don't have to think, and just "monkey see-monkey do". The purpose of the FD is to concentrate all the data you are receiving into one easy to interpret instrument to help you free up brain power during high work-load situations. It is STILL your responsibility to cross check what the FD is telling you against the other instruments and make sure it is giving you accurate information. A good example is when the LOC starts to wander during an ILS. Just because the LOC needle is swinging left and right and the FD is commanding corrections doesn't mean you should follow them.

But I guess I would have to go missed and divert in that situation since I'm one of the 9 out of 10 pilots who likes to use the automation that Experimental "guarantees" can't fly an approach without the FD.:rolleyes:

:DWow this thread's tone changed REAL quick.... Cant we all just get along?

My first emergency landing too...
 

I guess it's about time for me to chime in here...

First of all, I did nothing different than anyone else would have done and am capable of no more than anyone else out there. Saab2000 and I worked as a crew as we are all trained to do. If anyone deserves the credit is to Saab2000. From the right seat in a crew environment I am only as good as the leadership I am under. Saab2000's abilities as a PIC are right on and although he is relatively new to the left seat at AWAC his knowledge, wisdom, and experience in airline operations are way beyond his PIC time.

Saab enjoyed the trip with ya... hope we can do it again soon.


Second... to address what this thread has digressed to. There seems to be a lot of discussion about using the flight director or not. I personally never use it when the autopilot is off. It doesn't matter if it is VMC or IMC. If I have chosen to have the autopilot off I am controlling my destiny... not the flight director. Here's why. Several month back I flew with a captain who never used the FD. I was intrigued and decided to try. I was disgusted by how sloppy of a pilot I had become. I decided from that day on I would fly without the flight director. The first few days were pretty sloppy, but like anything else you re-learn pretty quickly. I love to fly. I hate all the airline BS, but i love to fly. There is no reason that any one of us can not fly a raw data approach and although I never really do that in IMC I still want to know that I can! I know a lot of you think that this is irresponsible and dangerous with people's lives in the back, but you people need to get a life. It's an airplane... you're a pilot... cowboy up!


Third... Early in this thread Kansas made a comment about me learning to fly in Kansas, and then another gave the credit to Parks College at Saint Louis University. I started to really think about who I have learned the most from.
Here's the list of a few men who have shaped my abilities in and passion for aviation... all in very different ways and from very different perspectives.

Tim Whitney- HawkerBeechcraft
Dwayne Clemens- Clemens Aircraft www.clemensaircraft.com
Ron Hallaux- HawkerBeechcraft
Randy Cox- Parks College @ SLU

... there are many more.



And just for the record... when we were coming in for that out of trim landing... that was some pucker factor like I've never experienced before!


-groovinaviator-

Ahh, welcome to the first of many differences between the 145 program and the 170 program. The only time we don't use a FD is stalls/steep turns. Its on for the rest of the flight. In fact, since the AP is integrated with the flight control modules, at least one channel has to be working to dispatch.

I keep the FD up even when its giving me "odd" data simply b/c it requires too many buttons to get it set back up if I suddenly want it. I usually fly via other references though and magically the FD goes where it should. I too chased it fresh out of the sim. Its amazing how much better the airplane seems to handle of you don't chase it and just fly the airplane.

I agree with ExperimentalAB, Toiletduck, and groovinaviator...

If you want to fly an approach (in IMC) without the flight director, you can do it. It may even make you a better pilot!:)

Duplicate Post...

By the way Saab2000 said you handled the situation, I would have guessed you knew how to fly the plane well...like a Pilot that was intimately familiar with his airplane...

So I've come to grips with the fact that I'm probably far different than most folks here - maybe I'm just a dying breed...But I didn't come into this Job for the money, big-shiny Jets, Flight Attendants, or glory. Really, deep-down inside somewhere, I'm just a guy that Loves to fly Airplanes. Which is really the only good reason I put up with all the crud of the 121-world - because they let me fly an Airplane for up to 8 hours a day (and sometimes more - legal to start, legal to finish!).

Honestly, it saddens me when I fly with guys that treat their Profession as a science - and a sloppy one at that. Flying an Airplane is nothing short of an art and should be treated as such. Just like a standard-shift car can be driven more smoothly than the best of automatics, we should all strive to fly the aircraft better than any Autopilot. One Captain I flew with many months ago said it best - "the day I can't smoothly fly this airplane [sans FD], is the day that I quit."

Again, groovinaviator and Saab2000 - Job well done.

Piece of Junk Airplanes
 

N441ZW


From all the MEL's I've been seeing lately it seems our airplanes are falling apart... and I'm not just talking about the plethora of customer convenience item write-ups!

Maintenance doesn't have a future there either, it seems...

I always liked flying 441...421 was the dog for me...