I'm still pushing for an agreement between the union and the airline to give the low-time guys more flying. Time is running short but I'm not going to sit on my arse and watch my dream fade away without a fight.

 

3 months left for this to happen (figure a month buffer to get the ATP squared away). I personally am not counting on it.

The bummer of this is that over the past several months - when it would have helped low-time pilots the most - scheduling stuck by existing rules with seemingly little ability to bend to help the situation out. Allowing line holders to drop time (i.e. below guarantee) and have RSV's pick it up would work. There were plenty of line holders willing to do so. I tried multiple times when I was new on the line and was denied.

I somehow lucked out on the Beech and got based in a good domicile as a new hire and flew a lot on RSV. My classmates at outstations did not do as well. One ended up quitting, after sitting at an outstation flying 50-60 hrs in 4 months after IOE, presumably owing Lakes the $ for the training contract.

Regarding hiring folks.. IMO the pay is the driving issue there. It is a good time for the airline to contract (if that is where it is headed). If they want or are able to expand, the lack of labor will be a hindrance, and free-market forces will likely push the pay issue better than the union has. I forsee Lakes' pay continuing to be sub-standard as long as a quick upgrade is possible. Let's face it, going to Lakes is a winner on opportunity cost... and that is worth something.

 

Thoughts:

1) Great Lakes is shriking. Not closing up shop, it's the cockroach of the industry, Voss will find a way to screw pilots enough to make money.

2) Current contract ALMOST guarantees there will be no hiring, see remaining thoughts for more details. This works because of #1, they need less pilots for the limited flying they will be doing in forseeable future.

3) There will be no new contract. Just an opinion? Yes. But hey, what are annonymous internet forums for.....well rumors too I guess. Pilots with 1500 Hours will not have a hard time making choice between Lakes and (insert 'my regional is better than your regional' here) when they look at pay and QOL seeing that both airlines have same minimums.

4) There WILL be pilots furloughed because of the ATP requirement, it will be a very small number, but I dont judge the actions of a company as good or bad based on the number of pilots they want to appease. It's wrong if even one guy loses his job because the shriking lines of the company prevent low-time FOs from obtaining their ATP in time.

5) The elphant in the room is the TRAINING CONTRACT. For those guys facing a difficult decision in the next few months this is what it's all about. Will Lakes force these pilots to pay $7500 (not prorated) and not work out a deal with them to get the required hours in time? Will they, on purpose, keep guys on RSV with as little as 6 hours a month to make a buck? (Ok the last part is a stretch but figured it fit on an internet forum)

6) Lastly, will upgrade matter? The MILLION dollar question for all regional pilots looking where their carreer is going. Will upgrade time on a Beech and the TPIC in a nonjet, non-FMS aircraft actually get you hired at a major over RJ jockies? Or with this impending pilot shortage (hahaahaha sorry I actually laughed IRL when I wrote that) will TPIC not mean much compaired to JET PIC? Today, March 16th 2013, TPIC still matters, but will it in two years looking to move on to majors?


7) Sorry for spelling, wrote on phone.

 

We're already seeing the Turbine PIC requirement vanishing from hiring mins. In fact, I think more jet FOs have been hired to VX, AirWays, JetBlue, Spirit ect. Compared to their left seat counterparts

 

No dog in this fight, and I believe when one signs a contract, he should be willing to abide by the terms of agreement. However...

How does or would the company handle the training contract if a pilot were to lose his medical through no fault of his own (not due to a DUI for example)?

If the company forgives the loan in those cases, it might be argued that if the guy could ONLY HOLD reserve, picked up extra days, and STILL did not get the hours, maybe the contract would be forgiven as well.

It seems fair to me that if the company hires someone with 1000 hours eight months from the deadline on the assumption he would get the remaining 500 while working as an employee and he COULD NOT get them, the company bears some of responsibility.

 

I feel like responding to these points.. so here shall be my thoughts:

1) Completely agree. Businesses will try to survive until their last breath, normally.

2) Realistically, all we're "shrinking" right now is only the town of Ely, NV. When ABQ closed the cities served were moved to flying done by other domiciles. Most the towns flown from Vegas will still receive service, except Ely. So I'm not sure how many pilots they want to "shrink" right now.

3) I can't help but get the feeling that mandatory retirement will hit me before the new contract comes down. I'm only 22 right now. Its a bit of a joke, but by living with that expectation, then there can only be good surprises I suppose.

4) I think the company really doesn't care who does or does not get their ATP. I think they view it as the responsibility of each pilot. I feel that they think their current hiring issues are merely a glitch and soon they'll be able to hire 15 a month like they used to. I think when FO's do get furloughed, it will do damage to this company. I also think they will not be able to hire enough to continue operations at normal capacity. I guess come August, we'll see which scenario pans out.

5) I believe getting the ATP is a furlough event, not a termination event. The 3 ways to quit without paying the $7,500 are a) loss of life, b) loss of medical, c) company folding. If furloughed, your 15 months hits a pause button until you are offered recall (which you must accept). If one is furloughed for a really long time (not sure the limit, 48 mos.?) then they do not have to pay or accept recall if they do not want to. This means the company will gain nothing by holding pilots under 1500. It would probably result in a furlough, "call us when you meet atp mins", and then recall people who will then either come back or pay.

6) I cannot attest to Turboprop PIC vs. FMS SIC. I figure they are both viewed as equal. But in the end I guess it all comes down to who is sitting opposite to you at the interview table. From all I gather currently, it would seem that both time sets are a requirement before employment at a major. With some exceptions, of course.

7) It's all good, mistakes happen. I apologise as well for all of mine, but they are just because I'm illerate.

 

So one can go from 172 CFI to Airbus right seat? Just because they drop the requirement, to expand their application pool, does not mean you aren't still expected to have it.

 

HIIIII-YAH!

KARATE CHOP!

A little Bruzer to make everyone's day!

 

To expand a little on item number 6- I have said for a while now that Beech 1900 PIC time is not what it used to be. Back 15+ years ago, if you were lucky, your 1000 PIC time could get you on with the likes of Fedex, United, Continental etc.., but even then many guys got their PIC time and went on to Air Wisconsin before getting on with United. If you look at today though (keeping in mind the last 10 years have been pretty stagnant) that same time just won't get you as far as guys with PIC time on E175s and CRJs. Unless your dad flies for the company or is the CEO of a major, good luck. I am slowly realizing the best way to get from the left seat of a 1900 to a major is via a jet. Unless your a Line Check Airman/DE with Lakes, that really seems to be your only option, either by another regional, or the likes of Allegiant or Spirit. I know of a few guys who have gone to a jet regional from lakes and within a year have been picked up with US Airways. I'm not gonna lie, it scares the crap out of me, knowing I have been at this place for almost 5 years, only to have to back to flying a CRJ

Sorry for the spelling, my grammar sucks!!

 

Epic zombie thread, batman...Good to "see" you Mr. C.

I've thought about this for the past week or so, and honestly, I think Beech 1900 TPIC time is the same as it always has been. You note that it took luck 15+ years ago to make the "big jump" to FDX, UAL, or CAL, and that many had to go to ZW. It still takes a high degree of luck to make that jump. I don't think that's changed much.

To me this points to the combination of computers and people that will be looking at your resume when you apply anywhere. In today's ultra-competitive pilot career market (which is much better than it was 3-4 years ago btw), you need quite a few "points." Check airman, sim instructor, jet time, community leadership...nearly all of these are ways that you can stand out as a turboprop captain, with no jet time required. In fact, I tend to agree that if you're going to be getting a call to interview anytime soon at a major, those things WILL be on your resume. If none of those are possible (and in some cases it isn't), then jet time will help. Why is it that way?

In my opinion, it's that way again due to the competitiveness of the career. Once you reach a large number of PIC or greater in the 1900 at GLA, you need another mountain to climb to prevent stagnation (the bullet points mentioned above, EMB transition, mgmt position, jet time, etc). If you don't climb those mountains (or don't have the opportunity to do so), someone else is out there at airline x or the corporate world climbing them, adding points to their resume that you don't have, and making it that much tougher for you to get that call...

Just my speculation. Best of luck with your career move Mr. 06A6! Glad we got to fly together in the mighty Beech for the "Greatest Little Airline."