Really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about voting yes for ALPA for the next drive....

(Someone else already said something here about catching more flies with honey....)

BTW, for the record, I AM NOT SAYING that I am not voting yes for ALPA in the next drive. I'm just saying that if ALPA or a group of ALPA pilots give us a hard time starting February 4th in EWR about flying the Q and then want us to vote for them a few months later, it will certainly feel like picking the lesser of two evils....

Get a clue bro, do some research as to why maybe ALPA pilots (Pinnacle) guys would be protesting this.

Everyone complains about everything. The Brewski is living proof to that. I am going to have to take a day off to go see this mass demonstration of regional pilots.

Anyone been through this program and if so would you recommend it for others?

Im just asking the same question awhile later to see if anyone has done the program and to see what they might have to say about it. If you did take the course please what were your times before the interview and how is/how did ground school go/going and are you on the line now and how is that going? Any other coments would be great!

ps If you dont have anything constructive to say please dont. Were all sick of the airline bashing posts:)

airlines do what they need to do to staff. No one complains when delta drops the 1000PIC req or mins down to 1200TT from 2500. You all just want to complain about the regionals, and thats what they are, regionals!

anyone in this or completed this program?

what!?

Colgan doesn't do the right thing. Can't you see that. They could staff that airline in a minute if they paid their first year FOs $35/hr or better and their captains $80/hr or better. They shouldn't have to scrounge pilots to go through some waste of time development program.

So what if Delta drops their PIC requirements. A Delta pilot can support his family and put money in the bank. A Colgan pilot cant.

A regional is not a regional. Who do you work for. Do you have the highest CL-65 pay in the industry. Do you have solid work rules? Or is it all the same?

Man we really need to stop having attitudes like this in our profession. Don't defend bottom-feeder management.

Why do you want to work for Colgan?

A better idea that would benefit our profession would be to CFI, build PIC time and go to work for a solid company. Colgan is not a solid company, they are bottom feeders. They fly larger aircraft for less money. Would you fly a 767 for Colgan Q400 non-union rates? If they answer is no: then don't work there.

Right on! :)

Agreed that Colgan sucks. They should pay more. But your statement above can apply to MOST regionals, not just Colgan.


You are aware that Colgan doesn't fly the CL-65, right? And I think that a regional is a regional, unless you plan on making your career as a "regional" pilot. Then perhaps it matters more where you get your time, as you aren't going to go anywhere else. Otherwise, they're all just variations of crappy work rules, union or non-union (albeit union is generally better).

Plenty of blame to go around. Bottom-feeder management should also include all of the mainline management, as they are the ones ultimately responsible for putting out the RFPs and awarding the contracts to the lowest bidder (be it going to Colgan, CHQ, Mesa, TSA, etc.).

Just a question. What is everyone going to do when the Majors - don't call you! OR, if they call you after you've been a Regional Captain for 5 years?

Are all you guys just going to quit? Going to move to another career?

This common attitude of "All Regionals Suck" is the reason WHY all Regionals suck (which btw, not all of them suck. ;) )

By all means, I am not advocating setting your career goals short and never planning on at least trying to get to a Major. Everyone should have lbig career intentions. My point is, that why go to a substandard, bottom feeder Airline with a history of being a crappy place to work, just to build your time? I know a few guys flying around at said "bottom-feeder" Airlines still waiting for a phone call from a Major.

While the flying at the Regionals is outsourced, you do have a choice of where to work. I'd rather be stuck at a good Regional waiting for the call then deal with certain companies. That way if the call doesn't come within a reasonable amount of time, I'm not miserable. I'll still be flying, making decent money and working for a company that takes care of its employees.

For example, XJet might be having some troubles, but they are still one of the best at taking care of their pilots. Going to any Regional for the sole purpose of building your flight time to hope a Major calls is, in my opinion, foolish. Choose where you want to work the next 5-10 years. Never know how long you'll be there.

I'm ****ed I didn't get a free ride like guys do at Eagle and Colgan these days.

Well Airwaves, if you are happy where you are, consider yourself lucky. I agree that out of regionals, ExpressJet has to be one of the best.

But the point is, IF you want to move on, that you do whatever you can to put yourself in the position of being eligible to interview with adequate experience, when the "bubble" hits, and not to miss it.

While other places may be better, they may not provide you with the ability to get the experience necessary, in time to be a part of a hiring wave.

It all boils down to personal goals, and ones own best estimation of how to attain them.

As far as being ****ed off about having to pay for your training while Colgan and Eagle have programs now, get over it. I wish I'd never gotten furloughed, let alone twice. But I'm not about to ***** and whine about it. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

I would hardly call it a "free" ride. By taking that course, you should be appropriately named "Idiot".

This is their solution to filling seats. Lowering the bar to such a point that applicants have to be sent for 121 PRE-Ground school training? What a joke. That should be the first sign that these people DO NOT belong in a 121 cockpit!!! I don't think I could do that for the sake of feeling like a complete douche bag.

I'm glad I stopped letting my family fly a few years ago. For Christmas, they get buddy passes on Amtrak. At least they require their employees to spend a year in the yard and then as a Conductor before letting them behind the controls of a TRAIN on a TRACK. Gee, what a concept! :rolleyes:

People. Please check your posts and find words to use that don't hit the filter. Also, the name calling we can do without. This isn't Flightinfo.

Amtrak! That is pretty Lame.

I went through the predecessor of this program. Before they came up with the week long PDP, they had me and one other guy come back around the beginning of November(my original interview was in October) for a few hours of Sim training in the King Air at Hobby Airport in Houston. They didn't give us any ground school, it was just strictly sim training. It wasn't long enough to require hotel stay. Me and the other guy had to split the car rental to get from Intercontinental to Hobby. Both of us were offered a training class by the end of that session.

The other guy ended up being my roomate during ground school. We both passed ground, sim and IOE. I'm currently on reserve in Albany,NY.

When I was hired, I had 360 TT, 100 Multi.

As I was leaving Houston after groundschool completed(to head to St Louis for Sim), we ran into the 1st group just starting the PDP. That was early February, so I imagine they're still in training.

Hope this helped.

The the F@#& people????? All I wanted to know is if anyone has been through the program? I didnt ask if you think Colgan sucks or not. I think Eagle sucks, but thats because Ive been with the company for 7yrs and know how they work, but Im not bashing anyone asking info on Eagle! to each there own and if you cant say something constructive leave it alone!

By the way THANK YOU Greenlantern for the info! I see you cant private message yet...can I e-mail you some questions?

What a stupid statement. I am having a hard time feeling for the trouble your pilot group is and will be experiencing when people like you represent them

For anyone that thinks a regional is a regional, PM me your email address and I will send you a copy of the XJT pilot contract which has been referred to as industry leading for the RJ. It's a large attachment, 419 pages to be exact.

After checking it out hopefully you will think 'wow, I guess all regionals aren't the same.'

...because they arent. While you are 'building time' (a flight school term) you are flying hundreds passengers a day from city to city, creating profit for your airline, and million dollar paychecks for your CEOs at your respective codeshare. Colgan isn't a time building scheme, its a business that needs to be respected. An ILS down to mins in a 737 is the same as a Q400, so stop rationalizing that 'it's just a regional' less. Why do I care? I care because for every dude that wants to come in and do my job for less, undercut our contract and put my job in jeopardy needs to realize thats not right.

Do you think your passengers and their loved ones want the pilots up front to be 'building time' thinking about their dream legacy job, or to be 'flying professionally' ? Express, Connection, Airlink, whatever, you do the same job as mainline so start thinking like it, and stop undercutting it. Does United have a United Pilot Development Program?

Sure thing Jamin. my email address is [email protected]

BTW, it's hard to tell because of the underline, but there is an underscore _ between the r and the 7.

ExpressJet undercuts MY contract EVERYDAY.

Not to mention you're flying mainline routes for regional pay with regards to your branded operation.

You think you've got a great contract over there, but you don't understand that your management is taking complete advantage of you. $60/hour to fly from SAT to SAN. Ha! Pretty sure Southwest pays $160/hour.

ExpressJet keeps lowering the bar, right?

DMEarc you have very valid points. I respect SWA for not farming out regional feed to the lowest bidder. It seems that a lot of DAL, CAL or NWA guys don't care that the FOs that fly their regional stuff are on poverty wages. I don't see them putting pressure on management to pay the regional pilots more. I sure wish they would...

Our branded isn't really a large threat to you guys, and you know it. Sure there are some duplicate routes, but we only take 50 seats at a time, not 140 on a 737. In the current market there's no way we could get 737 pay on an ERJ. You guys would toast us in every market. Pure numbers.

If XJT has the leading contract for regionals, how can we try to raise the bar when it is being lowered on the other end by Colgan? How can we ask for better pay rates if Continental is going to take our flying and contract it to CHQ or Colgan? This is the point of much frustration for XJT pilots. Perhaps management too? I bet our management wouldn't mind paying us more if they could- but they can't because we'll be underbid by another pilot group just trying to build time.

I respect SWA for paying their pilots well and running a profitable efficient operation; much more efficient than the legacies.

sorry guys but this thread is getting closed soley because it has nothing to do with the colgan pilot development program and more to do with who has the industry leading contract or who undercut who.

try to stay on topic