Colgan Pilot Development Program
 

Has anyone done this? It sounds great that Colgan would offer this to better prepare for the interview and sim ride. Is it as good as it sounds?

"Because of the current pilot shortage in the regional airline industry Colgan Air has been challenged with keeping our recruiting and hiring standards high while faced with a pool of lower time candidates. In response to this challenge we have developed the Pilot Development Program. Candidates that do not meet our posted minimums would be eligible for this program, at the company's discretion. All candidates will go through our regular interview process, including a full motion simulator evaluation, to determine suitability.

The week-long program will be held at Flight Safety at Hobby in Houston and will include four days of ground school and three days of simulator observation and instruction. The curriculum for the ground school was developed based on the deficiencies that we have seen with new hires in our Saab first officer training over the last year. The primary focus will be an instrument refresher course in a multi-crew environment. The ground school will also include CRM, Situational Awareness, Colgan Air Procedures and Policies, and an overview of Systems and turbine engines. The simulator portion of the training will include a total of 12 hours of observation of our new hires in the SAAB sim and 6 hours of instruction in the King Air C90 simulator. An offer of employment with Colgan Air as a First Officer training candidate will be contingent upon a successful check ride by a check airman after completion of this program. Because this is a pre-hire program, candidates that do not successfully complete the program will not be faced with a failed training on their permanent record.

Colgan Air will subsidize the cost of all expenses associated with this program however candidates will be responsible for their hotel rooms, meals and personal expenses. They will be eligible for Colgan Air's reduced rate at the Spring Hill Suites.

If you know of anyone who would be a good candidate for this program, please feel free to email me their resume at [email protected]. As always, thank you so much for your support." (Quote from USMC-SGT in Colgan Training Contract thread)

Once again more money that management is using to treat the symptoms of the pilot shortage as opposed to treating the cause!!!!! Raise the bar!

We had some problems in the Colgan training contact thread so please folks lets keep this one pertinent to the topic so this one doesnt have to end up closed like the other thread.

That's great but how do you propose treating the cause.... you think theres a pool of higher time candidates waiting in the wings somewhere saying..you know what if they start paying 30 dollars an hour first year I'm going to go be an airline pilot.... you have to deal with the way it is now not wish for something else....

No....you have to change the way it is now in order to get something else later...PROactive vs. REactive

This was the reason I started a new thead, but once again others turn it into something that has nothing to do with what I asked. If you have no useful information please just move on...............

That's exactly what I think

I think this about sums it up.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to eliminate the pilot "shortage". If there is a shortage of a comodity, the price goes up (but it may take time).

Personally, I don't believe there is a pilot shortage. Yes, the pool is drying up, but it is not gone. A sampling of regional minimums shows an average of about 500/100. The FAA says a 250 hour Comm AMEL can be an FO. 250 is significantly lower than 500 hours: it seems some companies STILL have canidates to choose from. True, there are one or two companies whose minimums ARE Comm AMEL. Those companies will need to get creative to fill the pilot slots. Already we have seen companies willing to pay signing bonuses, even lower minimums with jet transition (or whatever they are called) courses, large newhire classes with high failure rates, and now Colgan is trying the Pilot Development Program.

The results of these creative solutions?
(1) Signing bonuses were eliminated almost immidately due to contract violation and general pilot outcry
(2) Jet transition folks paid a ton of money for some ground school and a few hours in a sim
(3) large newhire classes with high failure rates: costly and sends many folks home with a busted checkride
(4) Colgan's Pilot Development Program... results unknown for the company. But for a lowtime applicant there is no out of pocket cost (other than room and board) and no risk: if the applicant does poorly, there is no busted checkride on record.

Is Colgan's solution good for the industry.... I don't know. But at least it may keep a few over eager and ill prepared people from getting a black mark that would follow them the rest of thier carreer. Who knows, the Pilot Development Program may be the beginning of ab-initio progams here in the U.S.


(For the record, I have quit debating how low is too low. The Feds say 250 is enough, and they make the rules.)

Low timer here... got a link for the program? Looked on the website and just saw the minimums, nothing about the program... thanks in advance.

The program is being offered on a one-on-one basis to selected candidates at or after the interview process. If your interested, apply and attend the interview. If they want you to complete the program, they will offer it to you. The other option is to be personally recommended by a CJC employee (aka pilot). Good luck.

It seems that before long, Pilot Development Programs may become the norm in the regional sector. That's Mesa, Colgan, and GIA.


atp

Agreed. It's an incredibly old argument that I will not visit again as well...

Very good post.

Regardless of what one may think of Colgan or it's new stepfather, I think the program itself is a good deal for both sides. It's good for the pilot that is making the initial transition to 121 turbine operations and may need just a few extra hours of training/sim time to ease the transition. If this means that they can avoid a washout or a busted PC on their record, it's a good thing. It will help some pilots successfully get through training who have the aptitude to take on the job at relatively low total time. It may also help others realize that they may need to go build more time/experience without having to learn that through a busted PC and a permanent mark on their record.

It's also a good deal for the company. It gives them a better indication of how the candidate will fair in training. It should help reduce the number of avoidable training failures and thereby reduce the associated costs. Now without getting into the debate about total time, I will say this. Regardless of one's perspective concerning the total time issue, I do not want to see a pilot fail and have a permanent mark on his/her record. If there is something that he can do to better his chances of getting through training, in my opinion it's a good thing.

hello...............



(Just wanted to make sure I chimed in, it is a Colgan thread after all :p )

im curious as to how colgan is going to pay for this. it sounds like a really good idea

You forgot to add "again". Actually Colgan's program sounds like a great idea. Interview, get the offer for the program. If you fail, you are out room and board, but no failure on your record.
MESA, and GIA are different. And there used to be a few places that did what they are doing.
Come in, interview, get offered the job. Now pay for your own room,board, AND training. If you fail, you are out all that money, and you have a pink slip on your record. Also, Executive Jet (NetJets), ExpressJet, and ACA used to do it. Oh yeah, KIWI, ...
Anyway, like I said at least Colgan is footing the tab for the training, and it's not a "jeopardy" ride (sp?)

I'm just a little peeon, but just thought I'd say that I appreciate this way of thinking. Being a low timer I look for information on this board - soak it in and make it relate to my goals, so its nice that some can agree that this might actually be a good opportunity.

Afterall, we arent paying for training like some of those that go through the jet transition courses... and you all like to harp on those guys. This seems to me like a free pass to see if you are ready or not, what guy in my position wouldnt be interested in seeing if he is ready as opposed to flying around in the pattern for another year?

A weeks worth of Hotel rent is a small price to pay compared to a washout on your record. I am all for the refresher course.

my GUESS is they will pay for it (or rather balance it against) training a big class with many failures. Say what you want about Colgan, but if there is one thing they seem to care about is NOT busting folks.

Wow, that doesn't sound like a terriffic deal at all. no pay for training, you hve to pay for your own hotel....i don't wanna be negative..but wow..that just sucks.

Bottom feeder airline creating bottom feeder program. Just pay your people more.

Chuck himself called me a couple weeks ago- "we are lookin' for Q400 FOs!" I asked him, why would I leave my 50 seat job to fly a 74 seat aircraft for less?

He had no answer to that one.

I said "if you think about increasing your payscale, I would consider it".

He said, "well we have have an in-house pilot group that is addressing those issues."

I said, "why do you even need that? give your people a raise"

He wished me good luck in my career. Real genuine.

*********s

Thats funny, I had a guy in my class who got a 79%, yes a 79% on the systems test, he needed an 80%, guess what happened to him?????????????? Out the door in less then an hour from when we got our results, real class-act they are.


Might of needed a 70%, and got a 69%, whatever it was he missed by one and they showed him no sympathy...............

I think we had either two or three guys (can't remember which it was) that failed the systems test in our class. They all got some additional training and retook the test, and passed on the second attempt. (One of them ended up failing out of training, but not for lack of attempts to bring him up to speed - several guys got lots of extra sim sessions to help them along.)

All in all I'd say I was pretty happy with the way my training was conducted. Just offering a counterpoint....

What?!!! That's CRAZY! Actually failing someone for failing. What would the FAA think? They let things like that slide all the time!:rolleyes:

Also, N2 rotation, who do you work for, and how did Colgan have your number?

I agree, just telling him that Colgan doesn't go out of there way to help anybody, if they do it is for there own benefit, like these new hires on the Q, how mmany extra sim sessions is it going to take, At this point Colgan doesn't care, becuase they don't have anyone else, they can not get anyone with less experience..............

Okay, I want to be sure I got this right:

Colgan sucks because they fired a guy who failed systems by 1 point.
Colgan sucks because they let a guy have extra sim time so he could pass.

Seems Colgan is danged if they do and danged if they don't.

Please Read
 

I think its more the fact that they canned the other guy becuase (as was told by our instructors) he would of required a whole other sim, we had an odd number in our class, so the instructors "alrighty " <--- some of you may get the reference, felt that they probably did it becuase if he could not get through the systems they would be wasting a whole lot of money for another sim, for basically one guy. I think the point is they do whats right for them, they don't do charity and if someone thinks they are helping people getting through becuase they are "looking out for their employees" they are kidding themselves, they don't have anyone else, that already are scraping the bottom of the barrel, hence this new BS program they developed....................( you don't see Air Wisconsin, Chautauqua, Expressjet, Comair, SkyWest, Mesaba doing this do you?



Colgan sucks for a lot of reasons, and I am actually getting tired of telling people why Colgan is not a good airline, and why it sucks, it just does.................Quick upgrade Quick upgrade, thats all I hear out of you people, I swear what makes you guys different from Gulfstream guys, "Getting 121 experience, getting 121 experience" Is it worth it, yeah I suffer now, but hey once I get my 1,000PIC Turbine I am out the door, on my way to FedEx, CAL, DELTA, UPS.................wake up Peter Pan, this isn't a fairy tail, it is real and by pilots working for sub-standard pay and work rules you are sending a very clear message to management, "Hey Chuck I'll prostitute myself out for 40k a year as a Q CA, hell I'll be at CAL by this time next year..............

Why don't you join the PINNACLE PILOTS amongst others that will be in EWR on FEB 4 protesting the Q's and managements BS that is coming along with it.\



This will be my last and final comment about COLGAN................................

I highly doubt that

they do pay you and pay for your hotel in training. But the development program isn't part of the training ciriculum

It's true Gunner. didn't say I won't quote my other posts though..........\
nah really, no more :D

true. don't be confused: the pilot development program is NOT 121 initial training. Colgan does pay one during 121 initial training

You said it...no more Colgan posts. If you go back on what you said it will haunt you like your "Hey guys I am a new Colgan pilot" quote from back in the day.

FWIW, I can remember back at ERAU when I took the final exam for the course, "Foundations of Aeronautics." My instructor was a guy with a Ph.D. in Physics and a former Navy A-8 Crusader driver. My semester average was 84.1. Riddle uses the 7-point scale, ie 93-100 = "A", 85-92 = "B", 77-84 = "C", 70-76 = "D"; below 70 - "F". I asked if my average could be rounded up and his response was, "What's going to happen when you face a situation where you will have to make a life or death situation in the cockpit, son? Are you going to round up?" There was nothing I could say. He wished my success in my career and I still got a "C."

What I took from that experience is that I have to be prepared beyond a shadow of a doubt so to speak. All i's dotted and t's crossed. Point, blank, period. No exceptions.


atp

will people really be protesting the Q on feb 4th at EWR?

Yes.........................

FlyGunner, check your PM's

If you call 50 bucks a day pay...!

what were you expecting? those pay rates without work rules on a 74 seat aicraft? while Pinnacle pilots cant get a contract? Oh i forgot you dont care. enjoy the upgrade! if you have any respect for yourself or your pilot group you might want to join your fellow pilots out there.

I do care actually. That's why I'm not flying the Q :) I am enjoying my upgrade actually. Type ride tommorrow wish me luck!

Good luck man!!