Gojets & Gulfstream
 

I keep seeing people take a knock at these two companies, and I imagine it's probably because of QOL, Pay, or upgrade time. Whats the scoop?

Use the search function and then read for about two hours. You will quickly learn.

I was afraid of that... :o

Clue is just trying to prevent this from becoming a flamefest...

There are good reasons for the angst shown towards both companies, read and learn.:)

Checko

It's almost as if you knew the search function exsisted and your knew someone would tell you to use it...weird...

To summarize briefly...

QOL, pay, and upgrade time are not really issues with gojet and GIA. If you're looking for poor pay, QOL, and emotional abuse try mesa/freedom or maybe TSA or pinnacle.

Gojet and GIA have a bad rap because many of their pilots obtained their status as airline pilots through undesireable or unethical means.

but not all of them

here we go again...:rolleyes:

for the kinggg!!!! waaaaaahhhhhhggggg!!!! :mad::mad: (the war has begun) :)

No, we're not going to go "there" again. Please keep it civil and follow the forum rules when posting. Thanks!

Thank you... that's what I was basically looking for.

I believe that Trans States took some flying from GoJet by the pilots undercutting a contract or something like that...I'm not sure..you better look it up to make sure of it.

Is that supposed to be some sick joke?

Heck, what do I know....I just know what I see throwing bags...that's why I said look it up

Hey Grossole.....Did you cut and paste that sticker from the no Alter Eagle stickers that American Eagle had going around several years ago?? It looks just like them.

Its the ones we had.

Trick question...undercutting GoJet is like trying to divide zero by zero...

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and suppose that perhaps he's dyslexic. (By the way denramp, if you're not dyslexic it was the other way around...)

They say that "10 out 9" people don't even know that they're dyslexic :D

Im only dyslexic with letters and numbers :p

I'm still trying to understand the whole GoJet issue. A few years ago there was hostility floating around when TSA started flying as American Connection. A friend of mine was an F.O. for Eagle and had a "No Alter-Eagle" sticker and TSA pilots now have the no "Alter EGo" stickers. My friend told me that TSA undercut the American Eagle pilot group and as a result Eagle lost flying and he was a 6 year F.O. on the 145. I understand a lot of things happened in that time frame that effected the industry, but he was happy blaming TSA for his misfortune. As a result of the American flying, TSA is flying with a scope clause in place that doesn't allow them to fly anything larger than 50 seats. When United approached TSA with the offer to fly 70 seaters (ERJ-170 or CRJ-700) TSA was bound by the scope clause and was unable without starting a new airline. GoJet was founded and the TSA pilots were offered the flying 3 times and a single seniority list, they rejected this offer 3 times. I understand the pay was below standard and the TSA pilots rejected the flying in an appreciable attempt to gain a better pay scale but were not successful. GoJet hired their own pilots and began operation. ALPA (Who has not negotiated a new contract for TSA in years) offered to represent GoJet and GoJet rejected that offer by selecting Teamsters. No where in this whole situation was there ever a picket line or a strike. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I have never seen the non-biased, non-emotional truth written about this.

The flying TSA (and CHQ for that matter) have as AA connection is holdover from the two regionals' contracts with TWA. There was no whipsaw or undercutting. Also, TSA had been in business for 20 years before any of that ever happened. TSA pilots didn't undercut anybody. Sure, their contract wasn't as good as Eagle, but that was management's choice at AMR.

Some of the concessions that management gave the waterskiers included massive paycuts, loss of block or better and cuts to bennefits (which already suck).

ALPA has been in negotiations for quite a while now. Management at TSA is dragging their feet as much as they can per the RLA. The only thing that's happening is that DH and his lawyer buddies are getting rich and Hulas is going to owe a ton of retro pay. The old contract was pretty standard fare for the time that it was signed. The MEC is working hard to improve it, but management is cheap.

As far as GJ being teamsters, they aren't a member of local 747, the airline branch. A number of carriers from 747 wrote very passionate letters to national to oppose their inclusion. Instead they joined local 618. Then they preceeded to sign a CBA that was FAR below any CRJ-700 payscales in the industry. Block isn't everything. Havning worked for TSA I know their other bennies suck.

To throw the Eagle arguement into it is BS. Pilots don't make that choice. The comair strike a few years back taught the legacies that they can't rely on one regional provider. The whipsaw is happening everywhere and the only way to stop it is to not accept below average contracts. That's exactly what the GJ pilots did. As a result, it's harder for TSA, Pinnacle, RAH and every other pilot group in negotations to raise the bar.

There is a simple reason why people are angry. Pilots at TSA worked hard to make money for the company for years. The company then used this money to start a new airline to pick up 70 seat flying. These pilots stood up for a higher pay rate that was deserved. Instead, other non-union pilots were hired to fly for a lower rate. The new higher paying jobs, in the newer jets that these pilots had in essence worked to get, are now flown by external pilots. Thats the whole reason people at TSA were angry.

It was the GoJet pilots that chose to go work for cheaper rates than a union was in the process of negotiating. If no pilots had been willing to go, the TSA pilots would have gotten to keep the flying they helped pay for.

Wow you sure seem to know a whole lot for just being an innoncent bystander trying to figure it all out. It's all so confusing! Maybe I'll just apply at Go Jets while I try and make sense out of this crazy world. You really should consider a career in politics. :rolleyes:

TSA could have operated the new GoJet ticket like CHQ/Shuttle/Republic, but instead they decided to completely separate the two groups and "invited" (read threatened jobs) some of the staff at TSA in order to get GoJet off the ground. It isn't the same as the Eagle/American farming out some of their flying to a company that would fly cheaper. Trans States deliberately sidestepped the union and formed a new company, while cherry picking from the TSA pilot group. Some of the pilots went over voluntarily, and they are hated by some TSA pilots, but what some people are remiss to admit is that TSA would have made life very hard on some of the people that went over to GoJets, if they would not have "helped out" the new certificate. Eventually it will all clear out, but for now the wounds are still fresh, and GoJets is still new so management still has a stranglehold on their QOL, pay etc. It probably isn't a good first choice but if you live in STL and have multiple failures/violations and low time they might be right up your alley.:D

My problem is with shapes and colours:D

These answers are why I started the post... searching through the other forums found more of emotional vents... THANK YOU!

It seems like pilots are their own worst enemies. Hopefully the inevitable mergers will make the industry better for pilots.

And to make matters worse, since I have been there they have gotten a 50 seat payscale into their "contract"

Which I believe will be hung over our heads later down the road.

the first fight and ill will against go jet may have eased some in the industry, but a I think a new and bigger one could be around the corner.

TreverW, I don't know if you're a pilot or whatever. That Eagle VS AAConnection carriers is totally different than Gojet. Gojet is a scab operation, if you choose to go to Gojets you will be blacklisted by ALPA and other pilots, good luck finding a job. Gojet pilots are supporting an operation which was started against union approval, they undermined the bettering of TSA pilot contract, and regional airline pilots, and the whole industry in general. Those CRJ7s that you see are supposed to be TSA airplanes and crews, that is why pilots who go there will be treated accordingly. If you like flying with no dignity, avoiding other's and would like hiding your badge at the airport go ahead and fly for Gojets. Most of the guys that go there are foreign nationals and guys you wouldn't want to share a cockpit anyways.

AirWillie, i doupt that you know what a scab is. also NOBODY from GJ has been blacklisted by ALPA. Eagle/AAConnection is exactly the same. Did AAConnection pilots undercut AE pilots ABSOLUTELY YES. I am one of them. The GJ CRJ's would be TSA pilots they had agree to accept the flying. Just because TSA pilots don't want to fly for 1-2 dollars more that does not mean that companies will shut down. PILOTS DO NOT OWN COMPANIES. Again why TSA did not strike. We are setting standards such as 22$ versus 24$ are you kidding me ? those 2 dollars will bring the bar higher ? THATS WHY OUR SALARIES DROPED. Not because of GJ or TSA because companies offered that kind of money and ALPA SAID go ahead guys take it. NOBODY strike.Nobody did anything about it.So quot crying about who took my flying your flying etc etc and do your jobs.Stickers mean absolutely nothing.In my eyes if I see a sticker like that the only think that crosses my mind is UNPROFFESSIONAL.

But will the go jet pilots be blacklisted eventually? or is this just an unofficial blacklist?

I don't understand why a few people bend over backwards to defend Go Jet. It seems to reflect more of your anger at Trans States (what about the other American Connection carriers Chautauqua, and Regions for that matter?). It's exactly the same eh? AA did not create Trans States and Chautauqua they were already there. They were flying those routes long before AA bought TWA. If you don't like contract carriers and you're entitled to your opinion. But that has nothing to do with creating a company within a company. I'm sorry you had a long upgrade at Eagle. I'm sorry the TWA purchase wasn't a windfall for you. Isn't it time you let it go instead of twisting it around to defend a scumbag like Hulas while he screws the TSA pilots? Or is it all just about settling old scores? The Eagle thing had more to do with egos and perception, a bunch of kids squabbling in the sandbox over who was there first. The key difference is Trans States and Chautauqua were not created out of thin air to serve AA in St. Louis, Go Jet was created from nothing by the same owner. How can you support that?

I just talked to a Colgan Q400 F/O, guess where he was before Colon.........................????????

Gulfstream, :) what a joke

exwaterski, Correct Hulas created GJ. Now what did your union did about it ?
NOTHING. See my dear fellow pilot what i do not understand is how all those (specific) TSA pilots or even pilots that they are having moral issues with GJ and outfits like GJ and they talk or are pro-ALPA and against scubs and all about blacklisting people, they now work in places such us Continental(talking about scubs), AirTran(ValueJet), JetBlue(ALPA overs and ex MEC there now) and i can get you a list of more.Again realise PILOTS DO NOT RUN AIRLINES.what you or I think won't change a damm thing unless someone does something about it. I would call GJ pilots SCUBS only if TSA pilots went on strike.Did they, hmmmm no.Why ? for the same reason probably that GJ pilots got the job. Got families to feed and time to built.
Alot of people may or may not like it but oh well, when my wifes brother got furlough after 26 years in the same company guess what ALPA and their supporters did feed his family neither pay his bills. Can you support that ?

Wow you're just throwing everything out there. It seems like you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder when it comes to ALPA. I don't think you'll find too many here that will agree there's a moral equivalency between working at Go Jet and working for Continental, Air Tran, or Jet Blue. But you go ahead and make that argument. Next up the Chewbacca defense.

And ALPA never did anything to go against Midwest/Skyway Airlines management when they brought in SkyWest for the CRJs. Now the Skyway pilots are getting shown the door with nothing in hand. Having a talk or two doesn't cut it. Fees were paid for services not rendered, ALPA needs an overhaul.

Icaros, weren't you another screen name a while back???
 

And "my dear fellow pilot"??? You were at scabjet, no? If I am correct, and your poor spelling seems to ring true, your "dear pilots" ARE ONLY FELLOW SCUM.... And here is a heads up... There have been numerous scabjets who did NOT get a job due to their "proud" history..... That, scooter, you can be sure of....And your knowledge of unions and the RLA is stellar... Why didn't they strike?? Do you have any knowledge of the RLA? The NMB? And the union who was in place? Are you bitter that you didn't have a union hand to hold onto while Uncle H was mounting you like a trophy buck.....????? Enlighten, please.....

You know, I am going to a leadership convention in DC next week, Prater will be there for a couple of days, I will try my best to get a second with him (I am sure I wont), but I am going to ask him this very question

When are you guys gonna understand that Alpa doesn't care for the regionals?