Mesa pilots both asleep, allegedly
02-20-2008 | 07:03 AM
#11
11 soon to be 10 days off
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Left seat, wait right seat, no no left seat, nope right seat! Ummmm, I guess I am confused
That would be my last night of work at that airline.
We have decent CDOs at Mesaba--always get a hotel and sometimes even 5 full hours of sleep. Doing 4 in a row is a little tiring though and I don't know how people do it who don't go back to sleep when they get home.
We have decent CDOs at Mesaba--always get a hotel and sometimes even 5 full hours of sleep. Doing 4 in a row is a little tiring though and I don't know how people do it who don't go back to sleep when they get home.
02-20-2008 | 07:21 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: A319/321 FO
An airbus did it in Denver less than a year ago, I think. I know it happened, but can't remember the date.
It was either United or Frontier in a bus.
They woke up to ATC yelling at them b/c they reached DEN and the FMS was flying circles over the last fix in the box.
FWIW, Frontier does a fair amount of stand ups, as does SKW. We all do the damn things.
It was either United or Frontier in a bus.
They woke up to ATC yelling at them b/c they reached DEN and the FMS was flying circles over the last fix in the box.
FWIW, Frontier does a fair amount of stand ups, as does SKW. We all do the damn things.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...68/detail.html
FWIW the airbus box on a 320 series won't fly circles around the last point unless the box was programmed to do so by a database arrival procedure.
Normally, the aircraft would fly into a discontinuity at the "end" of the flight plan and continue on present heading indefinitely
02-20-2008 | 08:54 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
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I think you might be referring to this incident.. The report came out a year ago on the news but the incident occurred in March 2004.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...68/detail.html
FWIW the airbus box on a 320 series won't fly circles around the last point unless the box was programmed to do so by a database arrival procedure.
Normally, the aircraft would fly into a discontinuity at the "end" of the flight plan and continue on present heading indefinitely
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...68/detail.html
FWIW the airbus box on a 320 series won't fly circles around the last point unless the box was programmed to do so by a database arrival procedure.
Normally, the aircraft would fly into a discontinuity at the "end" of the flight plan and continue on present heading indefinitely
02-20-2008 | 09:52 AM
#14
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Frontier's standups also involve hotel time. Some are actually really nice standups, for example ABQ and OMA, pilots get paid 6Hrs for 2Hrs of flying, 7 hours in a hotel bed, and back in DEN early next morning. Not for everyone though... as several in a row can certainly lead to fatigue.
At Mesa.... well, let's just say that pilots and flight attendants become experts at making beds out of passenger seats. I even recall, some time ago, a Mesa crew (2 pilots, 2 FA's) on a red-eye/standup combo schedule (red-eye flight to YVR, sit for 3 hours, then fly back), having to sleep on the floor of the baggage claim area in Vancouver (they were not allowed to stay on the plane and sleep because of it being an international flight). Just the kind of thing that helps our profession: passengers seeing a crew, in uniform, sleeping on the floor with plane blankets and pillows...
At Mesa.... well, let's just say that pilots and flight attendants become experts at making beds out of passenger seats. I even recall, some time ago, a Mesa crew (2 pilots, 2 FA's) on a red-eye/standup combo schedule (red-eye flight to YVR, sit for 3 hours, then fly back), having to sleep on the floor of the baggage claim area in Vancouver (they were not allowed to stay on the plane and sleep because of it being an international flight). Just the kind of thing that helps our profession: passengers seeing a crew, in uniform, sleeping on the floor with plane blankets and pillows...
I fly one tomorrow night. We arrive at 10:30 and leave the next morning at 6:15. Pretty do-able, unless your a b****.
It was a nice attempt to inform the uninformed why they should dislike Mesa. In the spirit of brotherhood, here are some suggestions to keep this anti-Mesa thread alive:
1) Our contract.
2) The name, Mesa.
3) JO.
4) N2, and how awesome he is now that he left Mesa.
02-20-2008 | 09:57 AM
#15
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http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...68/detail.html
Or wait, was that before the stand ups were so nice?
Funny, b/c that story you told about Mesa stand ups was before things changed (for the better) as well.
Again, a beautiful attempt, but no dice.
02-20-2008 | 11:24 AM
#16
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Paxhauler,
If you read carefully, I stated that some standups are nice. Some can be brutal when done several nights in a row. There's guys/gals who can, and guys/gals who can't do it. Some pilots will even do it with no sleep when they are home, which is difficult for most. And you are absolutely right, F9 had some scheduling rules before that were changed when evidence of fatigue started to make itself clear. The schedules were changed though and that speaks to the intention of management to improve safety...
Anyway, I did not intend to offend you or any pilot of Mesa. Having once flown there, I am actually very grateful for all the opportunities it provided me and for a great several years of flying. I flew with many, many great guys/gals and had a great time. However, I do remember the scheduling that took place. I still have friends flying there who keep me up to date as to what is taking place, which in many cases is down right criminal, particularly for reserves. The problem at Mesa, is that even though there are some serious concerns about scheduling, that have existed for YEARS now, there are no changes made... I would not be saying any of this had I not personally experienced it. I don't think you should attempt to compare Mesa's scheduling system to Frontier's or any other "major" for that matter... unless you've experienced both. It is night and day difference.
I wish you the best and to everyone at Mesa and all our sister airlines. What affects you, at some point will affect me, and viceversa. With all that said, perspective is important. You have a great job, you get to fly modern jet aircraft for a living, and the contract might have some great improvements in the near future. Good luck and don't take it personally.
If you read carefully, I stated that some standups are nice. Some can be brutal when done several nights in a row. There's guys/gals who can, and guys/gals who can't do it. Some pilots will even do it with no sleep when they are home, which is difficult for most. And you are absolutely right, F9 had some scheduling rules before that were changed when evidence of fatigue started to make itself clear. The schedules were changed though and that speaks to the intention of management to improve safety...
Anyway, I did not intend to offend you or any pilot of Mesa. Having once flown there, I am actually very grateful for all the opportunities it provided me and for a great several years of flying. I flew with many, many great guys/gals and had a great time. However, I do remember the scheduling that took place. I still have friends flying there who keep me up to date as to what is taking place, which in many cases is down right criminal, particularly for reserves. The problem at Mesa, is that even though there are some serious concerns about scheduling, that have existed for YEARS now, there are no changes made... I would not be saying any of this had I not personally experienced it. I don't think you should attempt to compare Mesa's scheduling system to Frontier's or any other "major" for that matter... unless you've experienced both. It is night and day difference.
I wish you the best and to everyone at Mesa and all our sister airlines. What affects you, at some point will affect me, and viceversa. With all that said, perspective is important. You have a great job, you get to fly modern jet aircraft for a living, and the contract might have some great improvements in the near future. Good luck and don't take it personally.
02-20-2008 | 01:12 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
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From: XJT furloughed due to non-ALPA undercutting
paxhauler, do you suffer from Mesa pride. Do you think that the grass is not greener? Are you in JO's fan club?
Just wait until you go to a major some day, then you will realize that you shouldn't have been treated how you are at Mesa.
Just wait until you go to a major some day, then you will realize that you shouldn't have been treated how you are at Mesa.
02-21-2008 | 11:33 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
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From: 737 FO
02-21-2008 | 01:36 PM
#19
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02-22-2008 | 07:25 AM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Mesa standups?
I ran into a PHX mesa crew on a hotel van this week. I knew the CA, and he said they were getting rid of the LAS plywood-board camping trip standups. Any truth to this?
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