It's easy for all of you guys to say that because it's not you. Aviation is a small community and you should back up everyone else because it could be you one day. The article only said he wanted to fly again, it never said he wanted to try to return to 121 flying. Give the guy a little credit and stop bashing him. No matter what anybody says it could happen to anyone. I don't know any pilot was hasn't lined up on the wrong runway on either takeoff or landing. If you haven't well then you're gods gift to aviation.

I don't believe anyone on here is trying to say "I'm better than this guy, why doesn't he just give it up?", or "Look at me, I'm God's gift to aviation." All we really mean is, would you say to a guy that has a DUI/criminal conviction/license suspension on his/her record, "Come aboard, we'd love to have you"?:rolleyes: Well, maybe so, and I'm sure it has happened, but in the back of the mind you will wonder if this person will goof up again...and at what cost. No one is saying "it can't happen to me", but until it does, we are not under the spotlight! This forum is just for tossing around ideas, so don't jump so easily to conclusions over written words when you don't have the whole picture....
Except for the guy that said, "At least there are certain mistakes he wont be making again..."
End O' Rant!

???????????????????

Some pretty strong statements.

Just so I'm clear, no matter what a pilot does, no matter how large or small the infraction, no matter how many people get killed, no matter how gross the neglegence: We need to "back them up" because it could be us one day?

With regards to your other statement: Hi, I'm Jay5150 and although I never thought I was god's gift to aviation, you now know your first. I would submit that if every pilot you know has lined up on the wrong runway for takeoff or landing, then you need to start hanging around some different pilots.


On the original topic:

Look I wish the guy well and feel terrible for him, and his family. But the bottom line is although there were contributing factors (there always are), these guy's actions were directly resposible for this crash. In the end that's your job. To stop the chain. For every accident like this, there are countless others that are avoided through the crew doing exactly what they are paid for and what the pax expect of them: not letting things like this happen if it is in any way avoidable, which in this case it was. Could it happen to others, sure. But what could happen doesn't really matter, it's what did happen.

I guess what I'm saying is when your mistake, even if it was helped along by other factors (ATC, construction, etc.) gets a planeload of people killed, you usually pay for that mistake with your life. In this rare instance it didn't, so consider yourself lucky. But...you don't get to fly people anymore, period.

My opinion only, of course

uh
 

I have only met one...... and I know quite a few.....

I would also assume that him wanting to fly does not necessarily mean that he wants to fly 121. And even if he did want to fly 121, I am not sure that Comair could afford the insurance.

One that would admit it, maybe...c'mon, every single pilot has at one time or another has lost situational awareness, if even for a moment...to say any different is just not being honest...

I'll admit it, I lined up for the wrong runway once on a 10 mile final.

I was a student pilot in a C152 with about 25 hours of flying time and 5 hours solo. Since then I haven't done it.

I am not god's gift to aviation but I am very vigilant about certain things--bugging runways and double/triple checking is one thing I do. I am sure there are things I could do better in the flight deck so I am always open to ideas and suggestions.

Now THAT's a good idea.

OK. Why is it not a good idea? I feel that his disfigured body and scars would be a real testiment as to the consequences of not adhering to the sterile cockpit rule and company procedures. He would better serve the company in this capacity as opposed to being a line pilot. But it certainly sounds like you have a better recommendation.

I think you're reading some sarcasm into a statement that doesn't have any.

He has not established a record. He made a mistake. Think back to the stupidest thing you've done. You probably only did it once, then realized how bloody silly you were. Would you say that you've established a record and thus should never fly again? The only difference between his mistake and the mistake of another pilot is that the folks on board died. A single mistake does not make him a bad, or dangerous pilot, especially under the circumstances of the accident.

What if it had been a cargo plane with 49 boxes? What if he was flying solo? I doubt the responses would be the same. The loss of life is tragic, but it it doesn't say anything about him as a pilot; the same thing would have happened on an empty plane.

I don't know about having him as a sim instructor either. Eventually he may come up with a fool-proof way to teach ppl how to avoid his mistake. After a time, everybody would have heard it, and it'll be in every training curriculum. Then he becomes just another sim instructor, with not more to teach than any other instructor.

I'd say put him back on the line if he wants it. I'm no shrink, but I can think of 2 extreme outcomes:

1. He becomes a very doubtful pilot. Second guessing himself all the time, and loosing all self-confidence, thus becoming more of a liability than an asset on the flight deck.

2. He becomes an average (or better) pilot, but with a keener eye for safety. He really makes the accident work for him, and is always evaluating the situation, looking for ways to improve safety margins.Flying will expose him to more situations that he can observe, and make suggestions for improvement.

Like I said, I'm no shrink, but I think that after flying on the line again, a couple captains could make a decision on which way they think he's heading, and make a decision from there.

He made a mistake, and has paid for it. There's a possibility that he can teach the aviation community quite a lot. I think it's worth a shot.

Would you feel the same if your wife & kid were on flight 5191?

I would, but then again, I'm not the type of person to hold a grudge.:rolleyes:

Would I be upset about my loss? Darn right I would. But would destroying the career of the pilot who caused their death's make me feel better or mitigate that loss for me? Absolutely not. In my opinion that would be just one more life ruined because of this tragedy for no other reason than personal vindictiveness.

I must argue the difference b/t other pilot's mistakes and his is not merely "that the folks on board died"! That is a pretty large difference if you ask me.
And yes, I would say he has established a record for himself compared to many other pilots who have nothing of this magnitude on their records.
I personally find it difficult to compare a human life to a "box of cargo", so I will just ignore that remark!
Finally, what would be wrong with everyone hearing about how to avoid this mistake and incorporating it into training curriculum. Isn't that the idea??? To teach people how to avoid his mistakes??

I'm not sure where y'all learned about statistics or probability but one incident is not a "trend" or a "pattern" of behavior. Just keep that in mind. I've said it once and I'll say it again: as soon as you believe you are immune from ever making a mistake (and the way some of you are crucifying a fellow pilot, it sure seems that we have a lot of infallible pilots amongst us) then that is when YOU are the most dangerous person in aviation. Period.

I'm not saying the folks were only as valuable as boxes, what I'm saying is that the outcome would not have been any different if the plane was full of people, pets, pesticide or paper. That's why I try to look beyond the deaths, and analyze him as a pilot.

Secondly, to clarify- I think he'd be useful as an instructor, but only for a time. Once he's taught all he knows, what's going to separate him from any other instructor? Let him go back on the line then get some more experience so that when he retires at 65, he'll have a whole lot more to teach, both in the cockpit and in the sim.