school sucks, i want a regional
 

I'm a senior at my University, currently instructing at a 141 school
300TT 145 multi... I'm looking to go to a regional by the end of this semester (May 08) with a goal of at LEAST 400TT

I hear that hiring is slowing down, and the mins are going to start coming back up. I don't want to waste any time getting to a regional, but I want to go somewhere reputable. I was hoping for ASA, Xjet, Republic (don't worry, I know i can't get on yet) I was thinking to get on with piedmont, TSA, PSA, get some hours and a type-rating, jump ship and go to one of my first choices. Is that frowned upon?

Just trying to get some opinions... and also I was wondering if anybody knows who would be an easy commute from PBI, FLL, or MIA (not really interested in eagle or their reserve/upgrade time)

Heeeeeeere we go again folks:rolleyes: Kdoner, if I were you, I'd duck!

You probably could get on with Piedmont or TSA with those times. A friend of mine was in the same situation as you, hoping for XJT but ended up going to TSA instead of building the extra multi time. He seems happy there, it's all about having a good attitude. Personally I chose the other route, build up the multi time and then hold out for the airline of my choice. I'm in a hiring pool at XJT right now and the chances of me getting a class date before the end of summer are getting worse by the day. In retrospect I should have gone to a bottom feeder with low times.

As far as jumping ship after you get typed, unless you get stuck at Mesa or something its probably not worth it. Remember everything is based on seniority and you'd be starting all over again.

freezingflyboy has it right. If you post times like that wanting the things you do, it could be seen as either flame bait or ignorance--or combination. But since you asked to get some opinions, then here goes:

Your gonna have to keep instructing more than the 300 or 400 you want to be at. More likely till you have 1000 hrs, and within that time if you are not an MEI, get it. 145 multi is low--not that its bad thing becuase we have all been there, but calling a spade a spade--its low, get more.

Maybe move to getting on with a freight operator after getting at least 1000 hrs. Especially if you get one in the midwest where you can do all weather types of flying. This is invaluable experience flying in all kinds of IMC weather. Start with the singles they have, then after 6 mos or so move to the light twins. After doing this for a year you will primed to move into the regional category. Dont be in a rush. Get the experience first and foremost, and as I always say get out of a flight what you out into it. I dont think I have many hours and Im sitting at just over 7000 TT and 6000multi (prop/t-prop/and jet) and still try to learn something new on each flight..FWIW

Not to burst your hopes but being at one of the previous mentioned regionals will be worse than being a CFI

No You Don"t

Doesn't happen very often but I agree with Toilet. When I left instructing to come to XJT I took a PAYCUT. There are some very good instructing jobs out there for the person with the right attitude. I'm not sure what 141 school you are instructing at but I instructed at UND for 2 years. When I left I was making $21.50/hr, billing 150 hours a month (between flying, checkrides, briefs and sims) and had benefits. Shoot, now that I think about it I was better off than a first year FO on reserve at CAL. At least I had health benefits!:eek:

And just FYI, assuming you aren't some flame baiter, your attitude sucks and will rub many here the wrong way. Thinking you are entitled to, almost demanding a job at a regional with 400 hours..give me a break.:rolleyes:

A few seniority numbers at a regional is worthless if you can't go on to a major. Let me say that again. A few seniority numbers at a regional is worthless if you can't go on to a major.

If you do not finish your four year college degree, you WILL NOT be hired by a major airline. So why are you in such a rush to get to a regional??

The famous line "seniority is everything" gets thrown around a lot because people want to get to a regional, upgrade as soon as possible, to start building turbine PIC time so they can get hired at a major airline. Without a four year college degree, you WILL NOT be hired by a major airline. So what's the rush to upgrade? What's the rush to get turbine PIC? Why are you in such a rush if you are going to be stuck at a regional airline for the rest of your life.


If I were you, I would finish my four year college degree. After that I would flight instruct until I felt comfortable to go to a quality regional like Skywest, Republic, Expressjet, or someone similar. Hiring will not stop. The regionals in general are still short on pilots. If anything, this slight slowdown is because 50 seaters are no longer economical, and that means a shift of flying from regionals to mainline. THIS IS GOOD FOR AVIATION!!! United, Delta, Continental, Northwest, and US Air, along with most the other majors are still hiring hundreds and hundreds of people each.

Think about it. Lets say you jump ship to a bad regional like Mesa. Then lets pretend that hiring does stop (It will not happen, but we will use it as an example because that is what you are afraid of). Then guess what, you are stuck flying for Mesa. You would be better off as a flight instructor. Again, what good is that TPIC if you CAN NOT do anything with it (you can't go to a major without a 4 year college degree). So all you are doing is acrewing seniority at a crappy regional, and that is worthless.

As one famous jedi once said, "Fear leads to the dark side." You are afraid of something that will not happen, and it is distorting your judgement. Do not worry about regional hiring. They will still be hiring when you are done with college and finished instructing.


Listen, I don't have a dog in this fight. If you abandon college and get on with a crappy regional, it is only good for me. It means there will be less competition for major airline jobs. It means you will be taking a job that I won't do (like work for Mesa), and leave the good regional jobs for me. But I am giving you the best advice I can because I like helping out others. Finish your four year college degree. Instruct for a little while. Then get on with a good regional.
This is the same advice I would give my brother, my best friend, or my son.

As a universal statement that's not true. For one thing, going to a major is not everyone's ultimate goal. Becoming a senior captain or getting involved in management at a good regional can also be an excellent career. For another thing, a 'few seniority numbers' can easily mean the difference between getting furloughed and keeping a job. That is especially important now with the industry on the back end of a hiring trend and facing an uncertain future.

You fly Cessnas, don't make blanket statements about an industry in which you've never worked.

And by the way despite the title of this thread if you read the original post he implied that he was planning on finishing college... unless he meant that he was going to drop out with as little as one semester to go.

Hahahahaha. Wow is all I can say. Didn't sound like he was demanding a job at all. Why should he care if it rubs you and your buddies on here the wrong way? If you don't want to offer any good advice then don't post. How hard is that?

kdoner:
If you want to go to a regional with those times go right ahead. I would put your stuff in anywhere you want to. You never know who may offer you an interview. If you want to be in the midwest, I know that mesaba hires with those times. Hang in there and finish up college, then head off to a regional. Don't let guys like this persuade you differently.

Hell I'm wishing I could go back and do another 4 years at college. Regionals suck, stay in school, your just blinded by the chance to fly something bigger than a 172.

A senior at a university and you want to bail? As in: a senior that should graduate within a year?

There has to be something more to the story here. How are your grades?

As mentioned, you'd be foolish to leave school with only 400hours - No degree and very little marketable experience in the cockpit.

http://buffetoblog.files.wordpress.c...es-da-fool.jpg

With the post you made, you just walked into a hornet's nest's :eek:. I'm sure some were chomping at the bit when they read your post :D.

I'm not flying yet however, I will tell you that commuting from PBI should be a breeze. Between Delta and Air Tran, I believe that there are 10-12 daily non-stops to the ATL.

Good luck to you. Blue skies.



atp

Don't be quick to leave the fun of school for the real world man. Spend as much time as you can drinking and having little to worry about! Since you said you were a Sr and were graduating in May I would try to find a CFI job to get more hours. If you dont want to do that then you can come to TSA, PSA or wherever you want. Just remember that its not as awesome as you think.

If you have any questions or want any advice just shoot me a PM and I can help you.

kdoner from your post i wasn't sure if you were graduating this semester or just have had enough and feel like leaving. Before you jump ship do whatever you possibly can to leave with your Bachelors. It'll sting you down the road and wil be harder to complete my just my .02.

Its pretty obvious you'll be picked up by someone especially if you've been following this forum.

Is it Aprils Fools day already? 'Cause I'm sure this is a joke:rolleyes:

If you don't mind telling me... in what school are you instructing?... just making sure you are not my instrument instructor, you leave and i kill you :D

Honestly this is about the best advice you'll get. Its easy to get tunnel vision and want to reach that goal right now but some things in life are DEFFINITLY worth waiting for. If you get on someplace with your times IF you make it through training you may even catch some animosity from your future captains for being some punk that took a shortcut that thinks he knows everything when they did their pennance CFI'ing to get 135, then cargo for a year or two, then onto a regional etc. etc. I know you may not have that kind of attitude by your captains may take that attitude regardless. Its hard not too feel entitled or think you can do it at this stage - and I"m not saying you can't. You've worked hard to get to where you are but TRUST me - get some more expirience first and hold out for a better regional or other flying job. Nobody wants to be a second choice - and though they may realize their company is a stepping stone for most they won't appreciate you bailing after a few months and they'll probably sense that in you right away - so they are less likey to care about you either. Either way best of luck.

Driver, you need to fly for Hef! :D

Actually I want that job! :eek:

"...but I've been instructing for 50 hours...I'm burned out and I feel that it is time to move on..."

I had a kid tell me that once...and I laughed at him...

I MISS COLLEGE. The regionals are like a never before tasted bad beer. The possibilities are enticing and exciting when you're asked which one you want. But the after taste is about as bitter as can be.

Don't be rushed into something that's not going anywhere. Build your time so you don't end up at "any reputable regional" but find yourself at "the reputable regional where i most definitely want to be."

What school are you at?

i have been flying for the regionals for less than a year and i often debate going back to school.

I would instruct at your current college, see if they offer tuiition assistance to emplyees and take advantage of that and get a second major in a field unrelated to aviation

I've never understood the whole "go to TSA/Mesa/Great Lakes for a year and then leave" kinda thing. If you're going to go to a bottom feeder, might as well stick it out, upgrade quick, build that turbine PIC, and take your shot at getting hired at a major/LCC in your mid-twenties.

Finish school...and then evaluate your options and goals.

Should I quit my job at a major since I don't have a college degree?

It's still not a requirement (preferred is their choice word) for all the majors..but will be soon enough most likely.

I just love it when someone makes a blanket statement like "You will NOT get hired at a major without a degree", especially when they aren't even in the industry yet. The guy that posted that probably goes to one of "those" aviation universities where they indoctrinate that students that the only way to get to a major is with a degree, preferably, a degree through their university.

You just need more college. thats all.

I disagree, you don't need more than one degree unless you are getting a masters in your field... which is not needed in aviation. Just know that commuting sucks and some regionals are much better than others. You should pick the one where you will be happy... if that means building more time then thats what you should do. But I would apply right now, the worst they can say is no, or let us know when you have X amount of hours.

Ok i havent read all the posts yet... but just for the records....

I am a senior... with half a semester left ... (which i am already enrolled) I am going to finish school in MAY... i just want somewhere to go afterwards... kinda planning ahead yanno

Ok, read what i quoted, take a deep breath, and see if you smell any sarcasim. :rolleyes:

kdoner:

Obviously with 153 post, you should have a finger on the pulse of this forum, especially the Regional thread...or at least I would think that you would. You know man the only one who can make that call is you. You know what your learning curve is.

When I took a job with Comcast a few years back, I knew absolutely nothing about HDTV; nodes; digital TV; help desk assistance; or even the software that is used to help you and other subscribers to receive the the digital channels that you guys receive through cable TV or anything like that. Granted......IT'S NOT FLYING where you are responsible for the lives of 19-75 people's lives in your hands. However, the principle is the same. You are learning something new. You are really going to have to apply yourself and create an environment that is condusive to your ability to absorb as much info as possible. If you decide to apply with 400 hours, take advantage of all of the resources that are available to you. Leave no stone unturned. That goes any type of job...flying or non-flying.

JMO.


atp

thanks for all the posts that were really insightful... and yes i'm going to graduate... sure... i'm young and dumb.... not that dumb...

no thanks for the rants on 300hr heroes...

I'm just trying to plan out some things here so i dont end up hanging around college already graduated. i hate those people who are scared to move on and try different things.. i've been instructing since 215 hrs. (only 85 hours dual given, and no i'm not "burnt out") i enjoy it. but i know i dont want to be a CFI forever, I did it... i have my CFI CFII MEI... it's something to fall back on ... I want to go to the airlines.... bottom line... i'm just trying to figure out what's coming up here in the future and decide what to do... just trying to cover all my bases and get some info from you people who are already there... hindsight is always 20/20 so i figured some of you should know what to expect...

by the way... is the MIA base for eagle the t-props only?

ok ,whats the deal about having to have a degree to fly jets?just want some opinions on this as one has to get trained on type anyway and the last time I looked Harvard and Yale etc had no flight schools !

My understanding is that someone a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away decided that having a degree shows that you have the ability to learn in a complex environment and apply yourself (I guess flight training doesn't require those skills?). Personally, I think its one of those "all other things being equal" things. If I'm looking at 2 resumes and all other things being equal, I'd probably hire the guy with the degree. Just one more way to sort applicants into big piles and small piles I guess.

Really, if management was smart, they'd drop the college requirement and hire a bunch of dumb drones right out of high school or something. Solve a lot of this management/labor, pay-us-what-were-worth/you'll-take-what-we-give-you-and-like-it stuff that goes on.:rolleyes:

I have a business degree from a state school which will work just fine. Plus if I ever give up on this industry or lose my medical, ect. I have that to fall back on.

instructed for 85 hrs and you had enough? I guess when you get to the airlines you will ask for an upgrade after 100 hrs ?
What's with these people these days? You are not even ready for an airline, i am not even sure if you are ready for CFI gig after all those instruction given.. I'd really hate to be your student because i think your attitude will show in the way you teach..
CFI/CFII/MEI to fall back on? Are you sure you want to be in the same line of business when regionals stop hiring?

Different time. The odds are not in one's favor and you know it. Don't be a jackass.

IMHO, I think that the major airlines in the US place far too much emphasis on the 4 year degree requirement. However, as that is not likely to change anytime soon, it makes sense to obtain a 4 year degree if your ultimate goal is to fly for one of them.

Outside of the US, airlines generally take a more pragmatic view with their hiring criteria. Having the right attitude and the right experience is considered more important than holding a formal tertiary qualification.

BS Flag! Ten yards from the spot of the foul.:rolleyes: