Are F/Os really scum?
 

Had a bit of a rude encounter yesterday. Flew a flight yesterday that had 12 first class pax, 64 coach pax, and a jumpseater. Jumpseater was a DL 737 capt based in ATL. He walks up to the cockpit, introduces himself to the capt, shows his credentials, etc. During the 2+hour flight, capt and j/s chat back and forth about some stuff they had in common. So I took the radios so they could chat undisturbed (it was my leg to fly). We land, taxi in, and start deplaning. J/S thanks the capt for the ride, shakes his hand, gathers his bags and leaves. He didn't say one word to me the entire time. Didn't look at me. Didn't acknowledge my existence.

My question is, isn't it professional courtesy to thank the crew, etc. for giving you a ride to work for free, especially in the jumpseat? As an f/o, am I really pond scum?

If you have to ask....:)

Yeah, he could've thanked you. However, it was the CA who approved the jumpseat in the first place so he was directly responsible. All things considered, he was a DAL pilot, so you should've thanked him for gracing you with his presence. I can't believe you didn't get an autograph! :p

Bro think of a frat house... Ur rushing till you upgrade. You'll be a god some day and then the DL jump seaters will talk to you without question.

I don't want them to talk to me. All I want is a little courtesy.

And when it comes to the above post about the capt approving the jumpseat, thats not how it works at my airline. If the cabin is full, and you're in CASS, you've got a ride in the j/s, no questions asked. Actually, in this case, with this guy being DL, he would be permitted in the j/s even if the cabin weren't full.

I'm lucky if I can get a DL pilot to even acknowledge my existence while I walk through the terminal. I guess I was wrong trying to be a human being by a smile and nod or even a quick "hello" walking past other pilots.

Is it the end of the freaking world if you are not acknowledged? Who cares? Just say, "By the way, sport, there's a smudge on one of your gold buttons."

Just remeber that and don't act that way when jumpseat and when you make it to the majors. We all do the same job so just treat everyone the same.

The CA always has final say on on a JSer, CASS or not. He might end up having to explain himself if he denies too many, or the wrong, JSer.

If there are seats in the cabin, and the JSer is employed by YOUR AIRLINE ONLY he may sit in the actual if he and the CA so desire. The TSA requires offline (including codeshare) JSer's to sit in the cabin if a seat is available. Your CA does not technically have the authority to allow those folks in JS if there's room in back.

If it were me, I'd say hi to both pilots, and most everybody does.

It's considered common courtesy to acknowledge the entire flight crew but courtesy went out the window years ago. Shoe on the other foot, the DL Capt probably would have told you to exit his plane if you were as rude as he was to his FO.

When I have to ride the jumpseat I try and say hello and introduce myself to the CA and the FO, as well as the FAs if I/them are around. I've been on a few flights were I introduce myself to the crew and the F/O just sits there with his arms crossed not even looking at me. Whatever. I always say 'Hi' to everyone.

I don't think it was a DL/CMR thing from back in the days since he obviously talked to the Captain. I wouldn't worry about it.

A few months back I had to ride the jumpseat on mainline trying to get to CVG to work. I introduce myself to the crew and present my stuff. The CA looks at my sruff with kind of a pi##ed of look on his face. The conversation went something like this.

CA: "I really don't give two shi*s about Comair"
ME: "Neither do I, so can I have a ride :)"
CA: "Welcome aboard!"

:D

I had a jumpseater give the captain, myself and the F/A each a big bar of Hersheys chocolate as thanks for letting him on our flight.

I now expect that from every jumpseater!

:P

Just guessing. Maybe he had some resentment that you are flying a "12 first class pax, 64 coach pax airliner" for a fraction of the pay, and a job that should be at mainline?

At least the captain is compensated so he can pay the bills, but I can understand why any mainline pilot would have resentment towards any FO flying 70-90 pax around for crapbag wages. That's chipping away at his profession.

Not flamebait at all, but you don't think you're better in your 76 seat CRJ 900 with first class than if you were a 50 seat FO for the same rates do you? Sure hope not.

I know of a Shuttle CKA who disallowed a mainline CA EXACTLY for that... he did not and sort of even rebuffed the FO.... CA told him to get his things and exit the aircraft so they could close the door........

I make sure the jumpseater says hello to me and then I introduce the FO to the jumpseater. Don't really know what his deal was. A simple hello would be nice

Well, if that's the case, then I say get off of my airplane. If you don't like what we do, then don't ride on us, its that simple. Don't trash talk the airline and airplane and what we do, then ask us for a free ride to work.

Besides, their own scope clause prohibits them from flying this guage of aircraft anyway. But that is for another thread.

They voted to give away that flying...look in mirror and be ****ed at yourself.

And HE is screwing up OUR profession by voting to outsource flying to other entities that he knows will make less money. Quit selling scope off to get an extra couple dollars at the expense of the junior people at your airline. If they wouldn't have given up 50 and 70 seaters, NO Delta pilots would have been furloughed, and there would have been leverage in the future to keep pay-rates up.

Yup. I'm cautiously optomistic that lessons have been learned, and there will be no more scope give-aways in the future.

It is in everyones best interest, but they gave up more scope in bankruptcy with pilots on furlough...so much for not throwing your own under the bus.

Another big round of bacnkruptcies would probably put us all under the bus.

Whenever I jumpseat (which was a lot) I go out of my way to say hi to the FO and shake his hand. Mainly because I know I like anyone JSing when I'm the FO to say hi...but it's no biggie. I had a pretty senior DAL guy sitting in the jumpseat a few months ago (somewhere in the low 60's on their seniority list) and he was awesome. Chatted with me and the CA the whole time (out of sterile cockpit of course) and was very friendly despite being crammed in the 145 jumpseat. Just depends on who ya get I guess.

At the same time, I have seen a DAL guy exhibit a lot of animosity towards a CMR guy when me and a CMR CA were both trying to jumpseat. It's none of my business so I stayed out of it. Long story short, the DAL CA tried to put me in the JS before the CMR guy (even though they have priority) since I was there first. In the end, we both got seats in the back thanks to misconnects but it was definately a little uncomfortable at the gate.

Maybe next time be the one to say hello and extend your hand for a firm hand shake. They will respect you more for taking the initiative and it will also say, "Hi, I'm here too...I'm not just right seat ballast."

Works every time for me. I've never had a problem. Or, maybe I just have been lucky? Also, as others have said, when walking through the terminal, don't be afraid to strike up a conversation with a 'mainline' crewmember. It shows that you have confidence in yourself, and it shows you are outgoing and appoachable too. You know, sometimes they are the ones that are the shy ones too...

To All,

I don't have J/S privlages any longer...frac pilot 12+yrs...but when I did and was working...as FO my Capt's always made a point of introducing me and the cabin crew to the J/S. I used this when I upgraded to Capt...always set nice tone of...your part of the crew mentality. Old technique but worked well.

Have a Happy.

I noticed that a good portion of jumpseaters ignore the FO's. It never really bothered me when I was an FO, half the time I would not even turn my head to see who wanted the jumpseat. Would not want to inflate their mainline ego any more than it has to be.

Just as a side note, a few years ago I was returning home from a job interview and jumpseated on United. I approaced the Capt with my ID, jumpseat form, still wearing the ultra conservative interview suit and tie. When I politely asked for a ride home the crusty old captain responded with "Do you know the rules?" to which I responed "yes sir" he then offered a seat in the back. I guess he thought I was going to grope the flight attendants, or smear feces on the walls or something. Since then I had always wanted to see this guy asking me for the jumpseat. Instead of a simple "certainly", I would of course say "Do you know the rules?"

Shake it off bro. If this happens on my jump seat I will tell this jerk to show my fellow crew members a little respect or he can find another way home! As an F/O I would just find a way to make fun of him. Or try to **** him off for my own amusment. :)

This is one of the reasons I hate to jumpseat and love living at base. So tired of dealing with all the quirks CA's have.

My favorite is when you JS and the gate agent assigns you a seat. You still approach the flight deck to ask the CA for a ride out of respect and he looks at you like you are crazy for asking when you already have a seat. However the one time you don't check in with the CA when given a seat is the time you get kicked off.

PS Comair doesnt pay the same rates for the 50, and the 900.........just splitting hairs

and ps whenever I jumpseat I introduce myself to the captain, fo and flight attendant..... have some manners....jeeze

hmm i didn't know you had to ask the CA if the gate agent gave you a seat. Also how would he know? If he did find out i would think he'd assume you were just another non rev'r.

Not at all. I should've rephrased perhaps. I'm not looking to go out and have beers with these people, but when they look at my hat/badge, and then completely look away it's a bit odd. Like I personally offended them. Whatever, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, like I said just trying to be human.

Yes, especially since you were the flying crew.

Maybe you just aren't his type.

At DAL, jumpseaters show up on our AWABS and even if you get a seat in the back you are required to check in with the captain. Jumpseating is NOT non-reving. As a NR you can drink, as a jumpseater, even in civilian clothes you cannot drink. The only difference is the OAL FA jumpseaters. Technically they are ID0 nonrevs, not jumpseaters and can only sit in a cabin seat, not an actual jumpseat.

Non reving is a benefit, jumpseating is a priviledge. In the last two weeks, had two captains threaten to throw off at least 5 jumpseaters, including one Comair guy for just taking a seat in the back. They made the agents go get them and bring them up. Was it a dick move? Some would say yes, some no. Remember, regardless of the agent handed you a seat card, you still are riding at the captains discretion and you need his/her permission.

I couldn't disagree more. If I'm riding on my own airline or mainline, and I'm not on positive space deadhead, then I'm a nonrev. Granted, I could be forced to sit up front if there were no other seats in back. Then, by definition, I'd be jumpseating.

short answer: yes :)

HMMMM not sure that is correct. Yes we can list for non-rev and get a seat in the back. But if you approach the gate agent and ask for the jump seat, regardless of where you sit.....if your boarding card says jump seat request you had better check in with the captain.

FWIW

You are seriously confusing the difference between non-revving and the Jumpseat. If you list yourself to non rev as an S-3 or S-2 and you get cleared with a seat assignment, then you can take your seat and do what you please. If you request the jumpseat you will ask the Captain for permission (or at the very least introduce yourself to the Captain)....even if the gate agent gives you a cabin seat as part of the jumpseat request. All jumpseat riders, whether they sit in the cabin or in the actual jumseat , must introduce themselves to the Captain and request permission to ride the jumpseat (says so in black and white on FOM page 4-3.2). The only difference between a jumpseater who occupies the actual jumpseat and one who flows back to the cabin is that the Captain need not verify the credentials of a flowback rider.

If you are being taught something other than this, then we need to get our Jumpseat reps together for a little talk.

Believe me, I'm not being a hard ass here. I'm a commuter myself and I'm very sympathetic to fellow commuters and I never play politics with my jumpseat. However, there are certain rules to be followed. I agree that with the many new flowback agreements between airlines now in place (which is a great thing), some Captains get pretty cavalier about requiring you to introduce yourself....that doesn't mean that you should stop doing it.

Last time I sat up front the FO had the worst breath. That was my reason for not talking to him. Check your breath next time before you complain that your jumpseaters dont like you. crybaby.

If the boat is pretty full, I ask for the gate for jumpseat. They usually find me a seat before I board, but because I was listed as a JSer, the CA is expecting one so I go check in with him anyway.

If I'm in pure non-rev status I usually don't bother, mainly to stay out of the way.

If you are in a JS status, or even had the conversation with the CSR, best to say hi to the CA to avoid misunderstandings.

We had a gojetter get on in ORD (badge turned around and everything), didn't even pause at the cockpit, just went back to his seat. We were annoyed that we were taking him, but he has nonrev on UAL/UAX so there was nothing we could do... until the CSR brought in the paperwork showing him as a JS'er :mad: A JSer who didn't check in...off the plane he went! :) It made my day actually.

If I were your Captain, I would have noticed the jump-seater "dissing" you and corrected the situation. I would have done that by introducing him to you. "and this is Bob..." Disrespect my f/o and you disrespect me. Also, I would have made it a point to bring you into the conversation if the guy was ignoring you. Sounds like your captain was a bit of a jerk too. Did you mention this to him? Something like, "did you notice that guy didn't even acknowledge my existence?"

Having said all that, yes, there are many captains who look down their noses at f/o's.

This man is right on, if your jump seating and it says jump seat, go talk to the captain and fo.

Not a good idea. The only folks who seems to be willing to play games with the JS are the one who don't commute.

On a side note.....I think Jet Blue has to be the friendliest place to JS.