Is this normal?
03-22-2008 | 04:06 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
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From: EMB145 FO
OK, this one is hard to blow.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something.
Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side.
I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career.
I wish him WELL on this future plans.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something.
Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side.
I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career.
I wish him WELL on this future plans.
03-22-2008 | 05:56 PM
#32
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Joined: Jul 2007
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OK, this one is hard to blow.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something.
Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side.
I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career.
I wish him WELL on this future plans.
Did he get knocked out on sim 1 or 2, or did this happen on sim 10. He had 9 sim sessions to report this act to the manager of training. He could have changed instructor. Another check airman or something.
Now, if this is true FlightSafety records the sim sessions, atleast that was the story I was told during my training. If he was on sim number 10 he was having a hard time with training because TSA only does 8 from what I recall. Am not saying he is a bad pilot, just bad luck on this side.
I did not know your sim instructor could be your check airman. I think that was the reason he got knocked out. He had the checkride gouge first hand from the man himself, and he was still mesing up. Please, I beg you in the name of Hulas, do not start a story that might not be true, you could hurt someone's career.
I wish him WELL on this future plans.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around.
So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer.
03-22-2008 | 06:12 PM
#33
Scary...Scary...
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 9
From: Rollin' Down tha 405
Here is how I heard the story. He said that he and his partner did fine for the first 8 sims. Then one night they were going through the company ops manual and realized that their sim instructor had been teaching things differently. They brought this to the attention of TSA and they told them that the flightsafety sim guy had taught them Chautauqua's profiles.
I dont mean to jump off here but that is exactly what happened to me and my sim partner. Now the only thing that saved us was that we had basically ingested the SOP and had been over all the DVDs a few times so we knew when something didnt sound right. My best adivce for someone coming to FSI for TSA would be to just know the SOP stuff. If not at least review what you just did in the SOP when you get back home to make sure youre doing it right.
To correct this they would be assigned a new sim instructor, do 2 sim sessions, then that same instructor would be the check airman as well. (This is the guy who the incident occurred with supposedly.) He hit him in the face on the first sim when he missed a non flying pilot callout. Then throughout the rest of that sim as well as the next he was yelling and swearing, plus hitting, breaking, and throwing chairs.
Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around.
So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer.
I dont mean to jump off here but that is exactly what happened to me and my sim partner. Now the only thing that saved us was that we had basically ingested the SOP and had been over all the DVDs a few times so we knew when something didnt sound right. My best adivce for someone coming to FSI for TSA would be to just know the SOP stuff. If not at least review what you just did in the SOP when you get back home to make sure youre doing it right.
To correct this they would be assigned a new sim instructor, do 2 sim sessions, then that same instructor would be the check airman as well. (This is the guy who the incident occurred with supposedly.) He hit him in the face on the first sim when he missed a non flying pilot callout. Then throughout the rest of that sim as well as the next he was yelling and swearing, plus hitting, breaking, and throwing chairs.
Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around.
So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer.
03-22-2008 | 07:41 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
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From: EMB145 FO
If this is happening as you guys have pointed out.
Salukipilot4590: Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything.
Then, we as a pilot group need do something. Email, call, text, telegram, this information to ALPA/Pro Standards. If we keep this to ourself, one day a mad man will be loose and one of our fellow brother will get hurt.
I am very disappointed that no one has reported this mad man. If, and only IF it's happening.
Salukipilot4590: Okay when you put it this way it does sound a little familiar. I didnt have any first hand experience with anyone like that but I did hear a few things through the grapevine about actions like that. I dont remember any names or anything.
Then, we as a pilot group need do something. Email, call, text, telegram, this information to ALPA/Pro Standards. If we keep this to ourself, one day a mad man will be loose and one of our fellow brother will get hurt.
I am very disappointed that no one has reported this mad man. If, and only IF it's happening.
03-22-2008 | 08:20 PM
#35
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 88
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From: Temporarily-Undowngraded-CA
Sounds like a bunch of exaggerations to me. I find it hard to imagine that a sim/check instructor is screaming and breaking things in a sim. Sounds like someone raised their voice and feelings got hurt.
03-22-2008 | 09:28 PM
#36
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 234
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From: CRJ-700
The sim instructors at JAL and Korean all have a stick that they hit people with when they flip/press the wrong switch. Another famous JAL & Korean training event is to know all of the CB's by heart, they are supposed to locate them blind folded. Now this is serious training
03-22-2008 | 10:42 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,934
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From: Retired
Sounds like somebody's feelings got hurt by DC. He yells and gets very abrasive but I can assure you he'd be losing a job if he physically struck somebody.
Tell you buddy to man up and pass it the second time around. I did
Tell you buddy to man up and pass it the second time around. I did
03-23-2008 | 07:31 AM
#38
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 397
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From: Satan's Camaro
Then throughout the rest of that sim as well as the next he was yelling and swearing, plus hitting, breaking, and throwing chairs.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around.
So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer.
The failure happened on the last sim, I guess primacy was getting the better of him and he kept forgetting that he was supposed to hit this button at the FAF to start them down like he practiced in the first 8 sims as opposed to him calling for the non flying pilot to do so. He was warned and given another chance. He remember to hit the button himselft on the second try but he didn't hit the button until 1/4 mile past the FAF. The instructor said that was not acceptable, and said those to messups were his 2 strikes (or whatever they are called) for the ride. He was then told he would be getting vectors for another chance at the approach and this would be his last chance. So he takes the vector and starts cleaning up the airplane. The check airman then stops the sim and informs him that he just failed. He asked if he knew why? For failing to callout the missed approach and go around.
So that is it as I heard it. Kind of a bummer.
Also, so CHQ doesn't teach people to perform missed approaches, especially when inside the FAF?
I don't know, I'm not trying to knock your friend here, but the story sounds greatly exaggerated. And if he does decide to report it, which is perfectly acceptable if there was indeed any type of abuse, I'd recommend that he leaves the exaggerations out, because the chair part alone would cast a shadow on the whole story.
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