Arbitrator ruling on Pinnacle/Colgan
 

ALPA Defeats Pinnacle Management in Arbitration

An arbitrator has ruled that Pinnacle Airlines Corp. and Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., functioned as alter egos to sidestep the Pinnacle pilots’ contract. The pilots won a significant victory when the arbitrator ruled that management had violated the pilots’ contractual rights when it refused to meet and discuss labor protection issues with them after Pinnacle Corp. bought Colgan Air in early 2007.

Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., is a wholly owned subsidiary of Pinnacle Airlines Corp. The arbitrator found that PNCL and PAI were alter egos functioning as a single employer at the time of the Colgan purchase. Relying on separate corporate structures, Pinnacle Airlines Corp. alleged that it was not legally bound by the contract that the pilots had signed with Pinnacle Airlines, Inc.

“Our pilots knew that Pinnacle management was playing games—we simply built the case,” says Capt. John Prater, ALPA's president. “This victory shows the strength of a resourceful union—we put a lot of manpower behind this pilot group, and they came out of this arbitration with another win.”

“This is a major victory for us,” says Capt. Scott Erickson, the Pinnacle MEC chairman. “The arbitrator recognized the corporate shell game this management has been trying to play and saw through its pathetic attempt to create an alter ego company to sidestep the legally binding contract it signed with us in 1999.”
The arbitrator ruled that Pinnacle’s “consistent failure to distinguish between the two corporate entities provides persuasive evidence that Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (PNCL) and Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. (PAI) were alter egos functioning as a single employer at the time of PNCL's acquisition of Colgan,” and concluded, “… because PNCL and PAI were alter egos functioning as a single employer when PNCL acquired Colgan …” the company violated the labor protection section of the collective bargaining agreement with the pilots.

“We are very pleased with the arbitrator’s recognition that Pinnacle violated our contract when they refused to negotiate with us after buying Colgan Air,” Erickson said. “We hope this ruling puts an end to managements’ continued quest to deny us our contractual rights, prompting it to negotiate a contract that adequately compensates us for our dedication and sacrifice to this airline.”

The Pinnacle pilots began collective bargaining with management under Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act in February 2005, and the agreement under which the pilots currently work became amendable in May 2005. Thus, Pinnacle pilots and management have been in contract negotiations for more than 3 years. A mediator assigned by the National Mediation Board has been involved in the process since fall 2006.

Based in Memphis, Pinnacle Airlines operates as Northwest Airlink and Delta Connection and flies more than 130 modern jet aircraft, including the newest addition to their fleet, the CRJ-900, which is operated under the Delta Connection livery.

So what does this mean next? A pretty big issue, did I miss the thread? I'd like to see Colgan guys get ALPA (needed badly). Maybe you guys can get some appropriate pay rates and work rules. Undercutting other CAL regionals isn't cool, either is another airline buying equipment for you...

Yeah, me and my pilot buds decided one day to get another airline to buy us some new planes. Get a clue.

Colgan pilots did not decide anything. CAL decided that the 50 seat RJ market was not too profitable right now and came to Colgan about the Q's.

Instead of speaking on subjects you do not know anything about mabe you should look at what is going on at your own airline and worry about that.

Undercutting other CAL regionals isn't cool, either is another airline buying equipment for you.



Undercutting????? Aren't you flying ninety seat jets for Delta at 55.00 an hour???
Way to raise the bar.

He works for Express Jet. Reading his past posts he spends most of his time bashing other airlines that aren't as "good" as his.

Maybe he should take the next 90 days off and educate himself

Another bunch of malarkey talk from someone who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Seems like the standard for this forum these days...

I'm glad you guys really understand the frustration here at XJT. Good contract, good pay, and you bash one of us for getting frustrated at Colgan coming in to EWR? Don't make this personal. This has more to do with CAL and Pinnacle management screwing over XJT, not the pilots at Colgan. Don't bash us anymore for being angry at this situation it doesn't make you guys look that good.

Colgan is, as a whole, one of the last true regional carriers. The longest regularly scheduled leg of the q400 (EWR to CMH) is 400nm. The vast majority of Colgan's legs are under 300nm. Compare that to "Contenental's" flights from CMH to IAH (855nm) and you will see HALF of the flights are operated by "regionals". So, rather than having three 737s on the mainline (crew earning roughly $220 per hour combined) there are two 73s and two RJs (earning roughly $110 per hour combined).

By no means am I saying Colgan's rates are fair and equitable, but quit bashing the puddle-jumpers for bringing down the industry when there are RJs competing against Boeings.

For me, I would rather have fewer jobs paying better salaries than a zillion jobs paying busboy wages.

I'm confused. You want an already low paid pilot group, to be replaced by a even lower paid pilot group? That really helps the CAL guys get their flying back.

Did you already forget how XJT was once part of CAL? Wow lets hope this happens to the Guys at American and Eagle! I pray it doesn't

Clearly you miss my point. Saabs and B1900s cannot compete with jets over about 300nm (the Q400 maybe 400nm). And jets cannot compete on short hauls.

Actually what I was saying is that RJs directly impinge on mainline flying. If you don't agree, go to travelocity.com or another travel website and look for flights in the 500-1000nm range. I think you will find many where RJs directly replace larger, mainline flights.

If the <100 pax jets were eliminated (or converted to mainline), then regionals would no longer compete against the mainline. The wonderful contract XJ has (for example) would be superseeded by CO's contract. As a whole, pay for those flying a medium range route would increase. And the short haul, TP rates might increase as well.

Keep in mind I don't have SJS. I just want a livable wage.

I hear you. But at XJT we currently fly only 50-seaters, minus a couple 37 seaters. I think CAL does that for frequency. A 737 on that route would cut flights by a third. Do I think XJT should be flying them and not CAL pilots? NO, but XJT should be under CAL, like it use to be, and paid as CAL pilots. Just look at what American pilots said about Eagle being sold. "All flying by American should only be done by American pilots."

One reason CAL went with Colgan is because of the scope clause. No one can fly 70-seat jets at CAL but CAL pilots. So CAL management found a loophole and used a 70-seater turboprop. Pretty sad. I don't want non-CAL 70-seat regional jets at CAL anymore than the CAL pilots don't.

One reason CAL is contracting with XJT is it found a loophole allowing 37 and 50 pax jets

CAL is contracting with XJT because they use to own us. We use to be part of CAL.

They sold us to make a quick buck and now want to save more by weeding us away for cheaper operations.

What do you think American management is trying to do to Eagle right now?

So what does this ruling mean? What are we hoping to get out of management?

Ya know, it's this kind of ruling that makes me wonder about Freedom "A" back in 2002-3. It was an alter ego deal as well and ALPA jumped at the company's offer of scope with absolutely ZIP contract improvements. Now, one of our negotiators is working over in corporate, a coolaid boy to say the least considering the filth that spews from his mouth these days. I wonder... a cool million changing hands behind the scenes... a ruse about Mesa on the chopping block and Freedom A being the new deal... an offer of scope... a cut-throat contract... a deal is made. Wow. It just keeps smelling worse and worse. I don't know, someone should do some poking around, investigate.

P.S. I'm glad I'm at Colgan flying the Saab for that reason, we don't take jobs away from the majors. Can't see a Boeing landing at Del Rio or Victoria, TX


Here is my thought on fixing this industry, I think regionals should not be allowed to fly between two B class airports. Hence the word regional, they should be used to feed the smaller destinations. I hear the longest express flight is 4+ hours to Canada I think. That's not regional flying. This change would force the majors to fly the routes with larger equipment and more pay. In my opinion no one needs 7-10 flights between two airports a day.
I know this change would severely shrink the regionals with Rjs but openings at majors would def increase. Thoughts???

While I do not feel a regional should be flying from MEM-SLC there are many flights between class B's that are not too long and would not be able to justify a 737. MEM-CLT for instance. Not full often with a 50 seater and why would it b/c you have Usair (regional affiliates) flying RJ's back and forth all day in addition to NWA to MEM. I do think scope clauses need to head back to a smaller number. 50 seats and smaller is a regional in my opinion. 50+ should be at mainline. Unfortunately the 50seaters are soo inefficient with high dollar oil I really see the scope clause staying at 76 or eventually moving up to 100. We fly the -900 in a 76 seat configuration. That is not far off from the DC-9-10 that NWA has been retiring (or maybe even retired the 9-10 already). Look at the smaller 737's and the DC-9's/ MD-80's not too much bigger (as far as seats) as the -900 in the 86 seat mesa configuration. If ALPA is really going to "take it back" there needs to be support from the mainline guys and the regional guys on scope and work rules. I would say MOST pilots starting today plan on a major, MANY get there, SOME stay at the regional level for their own reasons (QOL). Just my thoughts. You cannot justify flying a Bus or bigger between every city pair- especially with $100+ barrel oil.

to unhijack this thread....yes the arbitrator ruled in ALPA's favor. But "management" came out with a statement a few days ago saying that they were not bound by the arbitrators decision, because the arbitrator met with Pinnacle, INC not Pinnacle CORP. The assinine egotistical maniacs in charge at this company really amazes me. Not only do they think they are above ALPA, they think they are above the FAA and NMB and that nobody can touch them.

[quote=mooney;347180]to unhijack this thread....yes the arbitrator ruled in ALPA's favor. But "management" came out with a statement a few days ago saying that they were not bound by the arbitrators decision, because the arbitrator met with Pinnacle, INC not Pinnacle CORP. The assinine egotistical maniacs in charge at this company really amazes me. Not only do they think they are above ALPA, they think they are above the FAA and NMB and that nobody can touch them.[/quote

Yeah, kinda like talk to the hand is what management is saying. Unfortunately they will continually be able to get away with it and nothing the pilots can do.

Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic....XJet guys need to start another thread.

WHAT!?

Wow, why don't you tell that to the CAL pilots? No wonder we have a problem in this industry.

All CAL flying should be done by CAL pilots. Just because its a Saab, means it should be done by Colgan, especially with the pay for the 70-seater.

I love the continual XJT bashing by the way and total ignorance that Colgan is doing nothing wrong to the CAL pilots.

Get over yourself dude.

As far as I am concerned if it has a Globe on the tail, it should be flown by a pilot that is employed by the emblem on the tail. Colgan guys need QOL improvements as well as higher Q pay, but blaming them for CAL reducing our flying and "giving" it to them is ridiculous. We all should get to the point that we cost too much money and the majors find that it is cheaper to do the flying themselves. I think the Colgan guys will come through with a Union this time around. This year will be interesting at both the regional & major level.

I'm not the one saying I should be flying CAL routes here.

I think the point here is CAL is slowly taking their pilot's flying and moving it to cheaper and cheaper labor. Remember, a lot of the guys at XJT used to be under CAL.

I agree, but thats BEAN COUNTER LARRY KELLNER's doing. There is no denying Colgan guys need a union and higher pay, but before we continue to bash them, lets see what they do this time around Union Wise.


I highly doubt the majority of Colgan guys feel they don't need a Union or higher pay (though the last ALPA drive said otherwise). Them coming on here saying their pay is fine and their QOL are great would be a lie, but lets just see what they do this time around. I have been talking to a lot of the guys I used to fly with at Colgan in EWR, and its the same BullSh*t that was going on when I was there, nothing has changed. I think they will get a Union this time around. The majors are slowing, if not stopping hiring, so they may have to stick it out there longer then planned

I agree as well, its management at CAL and Pinnacle that did this. However, if you read what some guys are saying, they think they should be flying this for mainline. That's what I'm having a gripe about.

They just turn it around and say we are bashing them, while ignoring what we are trying to tell them

I agree, everyone needs to realize that with every "growth spurt" that goes on in the regional level, it means shrinkage at the mainline level.

Interesting. So you'd rather be furloughed so CAL pilots could fly your ERJ?

Or do you mean CAL pilots should absord XJT, but this time include a single seniority list? Love to see that happen. But it won't. Eagle attempted that numerous times, sometimes with and without the support of AA pilots. In the end, AA pilots rejected the notion of having to put new hires in the tprops.

So I have to ask, does a CAL mainline pilot really want to fly a Saab
between Houston and Tyler all day long (especially in the summer!)? C'mon.

It appears that XJT may be bashed because certain XJT posters bring it upon themselves by what they post. It is almost as if you work at any regional other than XJT, you are scum.

at least someone gets it j/k...........

I dont get it....I thought this thread was about a legal judgement in favor of ALPA versus Pinnacle Corp, or Inc or whatever they call themselves.

A.D.D. is alive and well in aviation.

Wait, who said I was bashing XJT? You kidding me, please don't put words that I have not voiced. I think the RJs have done harm to the industry, more due to management, nothing to do with XJT, they used to fly props before and have gotten the short hand lately by CAL.

Now as for all CAL flying being done by CAL, I agree with you, unfortunately management won't let them and no one would fly in a regional whose name they do not know.

...::yawn::...

Why does it seem that just about EVERY thread out there right now talking about anything have to do with work rules, QOL, pay, or anything about a regional always has to come back to someone from XJET bashing them? Quit dragging threads off topic!! Every regional has its place, and all of them need pilots. Just because one doesnt have the same lifestyle/qol/pay as yours doesnt mean its bad.

And if you want to be mad at someone, dont be mad at the regional. If I understand it correctly it is essentially the mainline company that decides who gets the routes. If you get this upset about this kind of stuff its probably time you get out of this field and move on.... Dont ruin it for the rest of us...

First of all, INDY Blows Giants are the champions,

secondly It does matter when regional airlines have poor QOL and low pay. Every contract looks to "up" the current best one, yet if all the contracts are terrible, what do we as a pilot group have to base our requirements on for a good contract when we go to management??????, especially in Section 6 (Money). You can look at regionals all you want as a stepping stone, but look how short-lived this "mini-hiring" boom was at the majors...........You never know how long you will be at a company, you might as well make it tolerable

I agree with everything you said.... (and I was VERY happy that the giants won the SB)... what I am saying is that quite a few XJETers out there seem to want to put down everyone else when people are asking for honest and good information on ONLY THE COMPANY THEY ASKED ABOUT. Dont compare them to any others. If you dont work for the company dont give negative information cause all you have is opinion and hearsay. If you DO work for the company give your honest opinion. Some of us want to make a REAL informed decision and are sick of hearing comments from the peanut gallery in the meantime....

And dont think im just bashing XJETers... If they were hiring I definitely would apply there... I have nothing against the company. in fact my friend who works for XJET highly recommends it.....

The problem some of us have is people acting like its totally fine that we lost flying and then say it wasn't because CAL wanted to cut costs. If this continues, there will be no jobs at XJT for you to apply to. And no better contract for the other guys to push for.

One guy stated it was totally fine for a 70-seater to replace our 50-seater, with lower paid pilots, because it was a turbo-prop and not a jet. Didn't know the Majors never flew props before.

Quit working for what you call low wages, get a job that makes you work 5-6 six days a week and see how your quality of life improves.

Ignorance is blist.

Do those 5-6 days a week job require a $80,000 down payment?
Is your career always in jeopardy for many different things that could cause you to lose it?
If you break your wrist could you still keep working?
If your eyesight goes bad do you lose your job?
If you get a DUI, do you get fired?
If you fail a check ride, which you have to take at least once every year do you get fired?
If you get fired for one of these reasons, can you ever do that job ever again?

Want me to go on?

I agree with you that it is not right to replace it... But lets be honest here, complaining about it on here isnt going to make anything better... Talk to union reps or whoever... These are the people who can TRY to make things better instead of always being negative on here. This industry is very volatile and it probably always will be, so you have to be able to take things like this in stride or you will stress yourself to the point of a nervous breakdown... Fight for what you want and deserve, but dont give off the appearance of being a whiner.... (This is NOT meant to be a negative post) :D

Ok looking back at the original topic. 9E can now qualify to fly the 1900, 340, and 400. So does this also mean that 9L can come fly the 200 and benefit from the better pay from the big brothers?

Not any time soon.

Man... I should have gotten all A's in school so I can fly a jet.